prcollin Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Creating a new site from the bottom up and trying to decide which method to use to divide the page? What is the best way you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pocobueno1388 Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Not sure what this has to do with PHP...but I would use CSS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prcollin Posted May 30, 2008 Author Share Posted May 30, 2008 well the site is going to be all php based and html based but i trust the opinions from these guys so i just wanted to ask Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soycharliente Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 I don't like frames. They get complicated. Tables are fine _IF_ you have tabular data. CSS is great no matter what you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuffradio Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Frames aren't complicated, they're just deprecated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prcollin Posted May 31, 2008 Author Share Posted May 31, 2008 I don't like frames. They get complicated. Tables are fine _IF_ you have tabular data. CSS is great no matter what you do. css div it is then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbh43dz_u Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 yes, use div's. you can use them for everything and frames are out of time - you cant create that good designs, because you are pretty caught in these frames and searchengines (like google) always list parts of your homepage (if you don't have a frameset-relaoder)... with tables you are not that flexible than with div's (there are many things you can't do but with div's) kind regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pquery Posted June 1, 2008 Share Posted June 1, 2008 This is the best tutorial (with example code) on how to make CSS act like tables http://www.snook.ca/archives/html_and_css/getting_your_di/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFilmGod Posted June 1, 2008 Share Posted June 1, 2008 Don't just "USE" css. Use it wisely. That means no absolute positioning (there are exceptions), not using ANY <table>'s (unless its tabular data), using <p>, <h1>, or other block element to wrap the text properly, and making the code valid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gighalen Posted June 1, 2008 Share Posted June 1, 2008 It depends what you are trying to do. I use pure CSS for basic, 5 page sites that don't do too incredibly much or hold a lot of data, but I use tables in sites in which there is a lot of output so I can arrange it all nice and pretty-like. But In applications, like this game I'm building now, I use tables + iframes. But I never use "FRAMES", period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haku Posted June 1, 2008 Share Posted June 1, 2008 Tables and frames are outdated now. Using tables for layout is improper use of tables, as layout is not tabular data. It gets especially messy when you start nesting tables etc. CSS is much more precise for laying out pages, with less markup that is easier to read. On top of this, as Yahoo (and most likely google as well, though I have only heard of Yahoo so far) develops its search engine to work on a more semantic level (which it is already developing), people who have laid out pages using tables will take big hits on their SEO rankings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonMariner Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Don't just "USE" css. Use it wisely. That means no absolute positioning (there are exceptions), not using ANY <table>'s (unless its tabular data), using <p>, <h1>, or other block element to wrap the text properly, and making the code valid. DO use absolute positioning - especially with a good strict doc type!!! The beauty of css layouts is that you can create semantic, well ordered mark up that can have absolutely NOTHING to do with the visual layout. This gives you FAR more control over what you can do. If you just go in and replace your tables with divs yet maintain the flow of your document to reflect its visual layout then you have just wasted all the power that css gives you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haku Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 I think that The Film God was making a good point about not using absolute positioning. It's easy for newbies to CSS to get caught up in trying to position things absolutely, as it can be a quick fix. The only problem is that often this causes problems that aren't visible until later on, and then the coder has to try and force a fix based on code that wasn't created very effectively in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFilmGod Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 I think that The Film God was making a good point about not using absolute positioning. It's easy for newbies to CSS to get caught up in trying to position things absolutely, as it can be a quick fix. The only problem is that often this causes problems that aren't visible until later on, and then the coder has to try and force a fix based on code that wasn't created very effectively in the first place. Thank you. I couldn't have said it any better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonMariner Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 amateurs have this problem I will concede - but that is purely they don't have the experience. PROFESSIONAL developers should be using everything to their advantage - and css is but one of the tools still not utilised to its potential by the vast majority... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prcollin Posted June 2, 2008 Author Share Posted June 2, 2008 amateurs have this problem I will concede - but that is purely they don't have the experience. PROFESSIONAL developers should be using everything to their advantage - and css is but one of the tools still not utilised to its potential by the vast majority... well i am developing everything else right now and the look later so when i get to the looks and site sorting i will repost with my problem current code etc and let you guys rip me lol i mean help me. You guys are great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbrimlow Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 Some points were brought up here that need to be reiterated. 1. If you use "divs" for your wire-frame layout, remember that Divs should not hold untagged text. Text should be placed in the proper block level tags (h1 - h6, p, ul/ol/dl,li, dt and dd). 2. TM is correct in that one should use all the tricks in the arsenal, HOWEVER, absolute positioning should NEVER be used for wire-framing your css. You can use them occasionally within a properly floated container, but only if you know how the pros and cons may affect your page. 3. One of the easiest, yet most important, things is to make your text and containers "elastic" at the least. By this I mean don't use pixels for dimensions. Use percentages and ems. Why? Two reasons. a.) widescreen laptops and widescreen high resolution LCD monitors ... almost all new purchases of laptops or LCD monitors are high res widescreen. Ever look at a pixel sized website on a high resolution LCD or laptop monitor? You'll need thick glasses. Percentage and em based layouts/text auto adjust for the monitor and browser window. I can actually work on my newer websites using my widescreen laptop. b.) Because people with visual disabilities and many elderly will increase their browsers text size - even if still using 15" CRT monitors at 800 x 600. So, if you designate pixels for text, IE 6 doesn't adjust them. This will just piss off a sizable percentage of your visitors - at a minimum those with old equipment and those with new. Try it yourself. go to your favorite websites and in your browser click, "view/text size/" and adjust the size up or down. 1 of 2 things will happen in modern browsers, either the text gets bigger and destroys the layout, the text gets bigger and the layout adjusts for it. 1 of 3 things will happen in IE6, most often nothing happens - 90% of the web pages out there are rude and onlyt care about the larger percentage of visitors. I found the best way is to start with body {font-size:small} which translates to approximately 12px in IE 6 and 7, and most modern browsers. So, 1em is thereafter @ 12px. .9em is @ 10px, etc. For containers, use widths in percentage and avoid designating heights. This way when the text gets bigger, it doesn't spill out of the container - which is fixed in height. Here are some examples that I am working on. Try to break them with resizing the text. nycrealbroker.com manapts.com/welcomehome As with anything else it takes practice and trial and error, but since you are starting from scratch with css anyway, you may as well not start with the bad habits and baggage all of us old timers have ... AVOID fixed pixel layout and text. A great book to get that helps with all of this is "Bulletproof web design" by Dan Cederholm - if you order it through his "simplebits.com website Amazon gives a huge discount ($39.95 in stores, $24.95 through the site) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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