Jump to content


Photo

what, no karma?


  • Please log in to reply
54 replies to this topic

#1 .josh

.josh
  • Staff Alumni
  • .josh
  • 14,871 posts

Posted 01 July 2006 - 07:32 AM

You know, i was actually looking forward to having the karma system around here... i guess the powers that be did not feel it was justified? Or was this another one of those "make it faster" decisions?
Did I help you? Feeling generous? Buy me lunch! 
Please, take the time and do some research and find out how much it would have cost you to get your help from a decent paid-for source. A "roll-of-the-dice" freelancer will charge you $5-$15/hr. A decent entry level freelancer will charge you around $15-30/hr. A professional will charge you anywhere from $50-$100/hr. An agency will charge anywhere from $100-$250/hr. Think about all this when soliciting for help here. Think about how much money you are making from the work you are asking for help on. No, we do not expect you to pay for the help given here, but donating a few bucks is a fraction of the cost of what you would have paid, shows your appreciation, helps motivate people to keep offering help without the pricetag, and helps make this a higher quality free-help community :)

#2 Prismatic

Prismatic
  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • Advanced Member
  • 503 posts
  • LocationSan Diego

Posted 01 July 2006 - 07:44 AM

Gotta give them time to get the mods installed :)

#3 bilis_money

bilis_money
  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • Advanced Member
  • 621 posts

Posted 01 July 2006 - 07:46 AM

yeah, i want to know karma to?
what is it all about?
what is negative and positive mean?

can someone please introduce a karma to me please?

thanks.


#4 Koobi

Koobi
  • Staff Alumni
  • Advanced Member
  • 419 posts
  • LocationColombo, Sri Lanka | South Asia

Posted 01 July 2006 - 08:11 AM

i believe karma is something like a rating system right?
for example, if some guy answered a question that i asked and i found it helpful, i would give him karma to up his ratings...something like that


i don't know what the admins opinion on this is yet, but i'm frankly not too fond of it.
this is a community right? not some place where we want to see who's answered more questions successfully or who knows more about something.

in my opinion, in a community, eveyone should be seen as equals, even mods/admins (except they would have to do the basic managing of the site)

just my opinion :)

#5 .josh

.josh
  • Staff Alumni
  • .josh
  • 14,871 posts

Posted 01 July 2006 - 08:40 AM

yes it is a feature of SMF. it was on when it was first installed.  At some point today someone removed the feature. 

don't know what the admins opinion on this is yet, but i'm frankly not too fond of it.
this is a community right? not some place where we want to see who's answered more questions successfully or who knows more about something.

in my opinion, in a community, eveyone should be seen as equals, even mods/admins (except they would have to do the basic managing of the site)

in theory i'd like to agree with this, but in reality i have to disagree.  If I were some random user, I'd be coming here looking for some answers.  I'm much more likely to pay attention to someone with a lot of good karma, and generally ignore people with a lot of bad karma.  The reality is that when people are looking for help, they DO want to see who's answered more questions successfully, or who DOES know more about something. 

By your logic, we should not have the post count feature in place. At least the karma system is more accurate.  At least it is related to one's helpfulness. a High post count could just as easily mean you ask a whole lot of questions and offer no kind of help to other people.  Or maybe you try to offer help but you have no idea what you are talking about and actually don't help.  Or the "jr. member/sr.member, etc.." or the stars. They serve absolutely no purpose except to show off your forum activities, regardless of how helpful you've been. 

If the karma system was nixed due to "speed it up" issues, I'd rather have it re-instated and get rid of the post count.
Did I help you? Feeling generous? Buy me lunch! 
Please, take the time and do some research and find out how much it would have cost you to get your help from a decent paid-for source. A "roll-of-the-dice" freelancer will charge you $5-$15/hr. A decent entry level freelancer will charge you around $15-30/hr. A professional will charge you anywhere from $50-$100/hr. An agency will charge anywhere from $100-$250/hr. Think about all this when soliciting for help here. Think about how much money you are making from the work you are asking for help on. No, we do not expect you to pay for the help given here, but donating a few bucks is a fraction of the cost of what you would have paid, shows your appreciation, helps motivate people to keep offering help without the pricetag, and helps make this a higher quality free-help community :)

#6 Koobi

Koobi
  • Staff Alumni
  • Advanced Member
  • 419 posts
  • LocationColombo, Sri Lanka | South Asia

Posted 01 July 2006 - 10:53 AM

actually i don't like the post count field being there either. i was about to mention that in my previous post but it seemed out of subject. but in the end its the admins decision.

the karma feature is open to faults as well. if you have a lot of friends on this board, they might give you karma just because they're you're friends.

and people would ask questions because they don't know the answers. so how is it right to say that they can judge an answer is correct just because it works in their particular case when they didn't know the answer to begin with?

therefore i think the karma system isn't very accurate either. it just can be misleading and i don't think it's an appropriate feature for a community...depending on what you want the atmosphere of the community to be like.

but once again, it's just my opinion based on the way i see things so it's natural for us to disagree on things like this :)

#7 bilis_money

bilis_money
  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • Advanced Member
  • 621 posts

Posted 01 July 2006 - 12:50 PM

i agree with you koobi.

i think too much rules will discourage the not so smart member and the noobs.
i guess it's better to not to use karma anymore or just remove it.
it really depends on the case to case basis really.

some members can't help right away maybe because his new to the forum,
or he didn't know the answer or maybe he has a personal reason maybe
he is too busy or currently working on a project.

and besides we have the report button already.
this way we can report who's making stupid things on this community.

and i know that the more they PM here the more they will get in touch with
the community the more communication exchange the more changes
he will share his idea to us...

just like me i would also like to share my knowledge but
currently my php knowledge is limited maybe in some aspect of the php.
and besides i'm still currently learning php.

so you can't really force somebody to help beforehand.
it's up to him if he is in the mood or not.
but he will realize somehow if he would like to share his idea.
perhaps a good reconcilation on this community will push the other
member to share their idea to...

well i guess this is just my opinion it's up to Exalted 'Eric Rose Brock' and
to the admins.





#8 .josh

.josh
  • Staff Alumni
  • .josh
  • 14,871 posts

Posted 01 July 2006 - 06:16 PM

Koobi

the karma feature is open to faults as well. if you have a lot of friends on this board, they might give you karma just because they're you're friends.

But in reality there are only a few people here who are regulars. By far the majority of users are random people who come in looking for help, and then leave.  In reality, the regulars are people who want to help other people.  If they are in that mindset already, then it is very unlikely they will go superficially raising other people's karma. In theory, I'd agree with you. But in reality, this is not a chat forum. It is a support forum, so that danger would be virtually non-existent.

and people would ask questions because they don't know the answers. so how is it right to say that they can judge an answer is correct just because it works in their particular case when they didn't know the answer to begin with?

I'm not sure I understand you here. You seem to be answering your own question.  It's the right answer, because it works. Are there better answers? Maybe, maybe not.  But given the many scenarios out there, from php/sql versions, platforms they are run on, features enabled/disabled, structure of the rest of their script, etc.. etc.. too many to even name, the bottom line is that the only person really qualified to judge whether it worked or not was the person who asked the question in the first place.

bilis_money

i think too much rules will discourage the not so smart member and the noobs.

I agree with this statement in general, but how does this apply to the karma system? The karma system is not a rule to follow. It is simply a means to show appreciation to people who have been helpful to you.

some members can't help right away maybe because his new to the forum,
or he didn't know the answer or maybe he has a personal reason maybe
he is too busy or currently working on a project.

I will agree that it is possible that many people out there would stay and be regulars and help other people if they had the time.  But taking away a 'reward' system for those who do stay, simply because of this logic, seems more like punishment to the people who do stay and help.  In the (US) army, you can earn a purple heart (a medal) for going above and beyond your duties and helping other people.  Look at the Movie Forrest Gump.  He earned a purple heart for saving everybody in his platoon.  Now, any other person in his platoon could argue that they would have done the same thing if they had the chance. And they probably would have. But that's not a reason to not award Forrest the purple heart for doing it.  The purple heart is given to someone to show what that person did do, not what other people didn't do. The same principle works for the karma system here.

If I were some random person looking for help, and I come to these boards, ask my question, and someone helps me out, especially if it's a particularly difficult problem to solve, and that person has shown me a whole lot of patience because I'm such a noob, I would most definately want to click the good karma button on him.  He earned it. He probably deserves more than that.  But at least it's something.  Now, maybe I would and maybe I wouldn't think to myself that I'd like to be able to help out too, if I were better, or if I had more time, but I would certainly not somehow be offended by this person's karma points, compared to mine.

and besides we have the report button already.
this way we can report who's making stupid things on this community.

I agree. However, if I were a mod, I would not want to be flooded with reports about people giving bad advice, or people asking questions and being ungrateful or not paying attention to advice offered, etc... Do you report to the mods when this stuff happens, or do you simply ignore them, or point it out yourself? What do you really think would happen if you reported something like that to a mod? They'd most likely agree with you that it is annoying, but in the nicest way possible they'd tell you to stop bothering them with petty things.  This is where the 'smite' side of the karma system comes in handy.  It is a non-partial 3rd party public tracking system for people who are like that.

and i know that the more they PM here the more they will get in touch with
the community the more communication exchange the more changes
he will share his idea to us...

Did you mean Post, instead of PM? I'd agree with you if you meant posting, but PMing here is bad. It's even in the rules: "Do not PM people asking for help. It goes against the whole purpose of the community." well that's paraphrased, but you get the point.  If not, then the point is, if you PM someone and ask them for help, first of all, you are cheating yourself.  How? Because you are sending out your question on the hopes that one single person will know the answer.  If you have a question, which do you think will more likely yield an answer faster (if at all): asking one person, or asking many people? The answer is obvious.

2nd, you are cheating other people.  By asking your question in the public for all to read, you are giving many people the opportunity to learn something, as well.  You are not the only person who has come across your question, I promise.

just like me i would also like to share my knowledge but
currently my php knowledge is limited maybe in some aspect of the php.
and besides i'm still currently learning php.

Good. I am happy for you, really. We need more people who are willing to help around here.  But do you think that gives you the right to deny Forrest Gump his purple heart?  To me, this sounds more like you are wanting to deny someone the fruits of their labor, out of envy and jealousy. I'm just being honest.

so you can't really force somebody to help beforehand.
it's up to him if he is in the mood or not.
but he will realize somehow if he would like to share his idea.
perhaps a good reconcilation on this community will push the other
member to share their idea to...

Nobody is forcing anybody to help.  You seem to now be arguing that Forrest Gump should be denied his purple heart, simply because the other people in his platoon are not required to save their comrads.  You seem to be arguing this: "I don't have to help out. It is my choice.  Therefore, you shouldn't be rewarded for helping out - because it's not a requirement."  Does that not sound silly to you? Especially when you consider that this reward is not being given out by phpfreaks.com, the mods (as reps of phpfreaks.com, that is), or anything of the sort.  It is being given to you by people just like you, who were looking for help, and got it.

well i guess this is just my opinion it's up to Exalted 'Eric Rose Brock' and
to the admins.

See that's the mentality that is not very community-like.  Why do you think Eric is so Exalted?  Do you hold some kind of contempt for him, simply because he spent his time and effort to create this site?  Again, this reeks of envy and jealousy, rather than a genuine concern for an "even level community."

I believe the karma system might encourage people to help out more.  I will agree that it is a status thing.  I agree with that 100%.  But I look at it as a badge of honor, like a purple heart, to be earned, not something like post counts or "sr. member" titles that mean nothing.  It is a tool based on people coming for help, and getting it, and showing their appreciation.

You can argue that it is just an "egobooster" to inflate people's egos, but that is simply not true.  The only reason you would have the karma is if you helped.  You aren't giving yourself karma. Other people are giving it to you, because you helped them.  Fears of artificially increasing karma is simply not true.  If anything, I take that as a slap in the face.  I spend a lot of my time helping out people here, and you come along and say I'm doing it just to strut my stuff? Again, I smell envy.  Especially when I readily admit that I am nowhere near the best around here, and I always give out props to people.
Did I help you? Feeling generous? Buy me lunch! 
Please, take the time and do some research and find out how much it would have cost you to get your help from a decent paid-for source. A "roll-of-the-dice" freelancer will charge you $5-$15/hr. A decent entry level freelancer will charge you around $15-30/hr. A professional will charge you anywhere from $50-$100/hr. An agency will charge anywhere from $100-$250/hr. Think about all this when soliciting for help here. Think about how much money you are making from the work you are asking for help on. No, we do not expect you to pay for the help given here, but donating a few bucks is a fraction of the cost of what you would have paid, shows your appreciation, helps motivate people to keep offering help without the pricetag, and helps make this a higher quality free-help community :)

#9 hackerkts

hackerkts
  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • Advanced Member
  • 593 posts
  • LocationSingapore
  • Age:18

Posted 02 July 2006 - 01:19 AM

OMG early in the morning seeing an essay, sorry I didn't read all the replies because it's too long.
But I just wanna comment about these Karma and Post count system.

Karama
I don't think it really matter how many positive/negative karamas you had, so what if you have 1000 positive karmas ? Just to showoff ? And so what if you had 1000 negative karamas ? Lolz.. If someone really had so much negative karamas I think it's mod and admin job to due with them.

Post count
It's actually the same as Karama system, if you helps people with their problems just because of the "post count" then I think you lost the main point of helping others. (What I mean is you actually help out for some rewards, not you willing to help.)

OMG.. I just typed what I though and it's already an essay, sorry for taking your time reading it.  :-\

Regards,
hackerkts

To be a coder, you must learn how to think and not to give up so easily.


#10 bilis_money

bilis_money
  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • Advanced Member
  • 621 posts

Posted 02 July 2006 - 01:30 AM

hi, crayon violent

Did you mean Post, instead of PM? I'd agree with you if you meant posting, but PMing here is bad.

yeah i mean post, i thought Post and PM are the same, sorry for the mistake.

i have been visiting here for two years but i have joined last month.
so is saw many changes and things that happening on this forum.

And i also saw that when you always helping people here you will be promoted as "MODERATOR" so please just don't stop helping and i'm sure
"Eric" will promote you as MOD.

I know and i saw you and always helping me with my questions here
and to the other member here as well.

I saw wildteen88, ober, kenbrns, Bane and many ordinary members here that
was promoted because of the reason they are very helpful here, and putting
the 'donation' button on their signature, he, he,  :)

Just don't stop helping and the ADMINs here will surely promote you.

well, if i'm the admin i'll promote you as MOD. :)

-but i guess this will take more time. the last guy that was promoted here
was kenrbsn it took him 2,000++ post before he was promoted, so i guess
it will take more time to you to be promoted.

-and beside the karma thing i'm a little agree with it, but i don't really
who's responsible for pressing the button to make a member his karma
negative or positive i have no idea how this thing work so, i'm assuming
this will add more work load to MODS and ADMINS.

cheers! crayon violent . :)






#11 .josh

.josh
  • Staff Alumni
  • .josh
  • 14,871 posts

Posted 02 July 2006 - 05:49 AM

Thank you for your wonderful words of kindness bilis_money. I bet you spent a while writing that, and I appreciate it.  Now wouldn't it have been more convenient to just give me a karma point, instead? That's the point I'm trying to make. 

The purpose of my "campaign" is to argue the validity of the karma system.  My argument is that on a support board, a system like the karma system is not a superficial feature, like post counts, titles, stars, etc...

hackertz:
As mentioned, it is not possible to artificially raise your karma points. The only way you can raise them is by convincing other people to click on your karma link, and I'm willing to wager that most people won't, unless they have a good reason to do so, like oh I don't know say, you helped them with their problem.  Unless, of course, the admins and/or whoever else has been given authority to straight up enter in a new number (yes, there is a field for that, if you have the permissions to do so), goes and changes the number to something really high.  But then something like that would be rather obvious, now wouldn't it?

I guess I'm fighting a lost cause here. Not a whole lot of people responding, putting in their 2 cents, most importantly, the person who disabled the feature in the first place.  I guess I'll just drop it  :-\

Did I help you? Feeling generous? Buy me lunch! 
Please, take the time and do some research and find out how much it would have cost you to get your help from a decent paid-for source. A "roll-of-the-dice" freelancer will charge you $5-$15/hr. A decent entry level freelancer will charge you around $15-30/hr. A professional will charge you anywhere from $50-$100/hr. An agency will charge anywhere from $100-$250/hr. Think about all this when soliciting for help here. Think about how much money you are making from the work you are asking for help on. No, we do not expect you to pay for the help given here, but donating a few bucks is a fraction of the cost of what you would have paid, shows your appreciation, helps motivate people to keep offering help without the pricetag, and helps make this a higher quality free-help community :)

#12 Koobi

Koobi
  • Staff Alumni
  • Advanced Member
  • 419 posts
  • LocationColombo, Sri Lanka | South Asia

Posted 02 July 2006 - 07:14 AM

Koobi

the karma feature is open to faults as well. if you have a lot of friends on this board, they might give you karma just because they're you're friends.

But in reality there are only a few people here who are regulars. By far the majority of users are random people who come in looking for help, and then leave.  In reality, the regulars are people who want to help other people.  If they are in that mindset already, then it is very unlikely they will go superficially raising other people's karma. In theory, I'd agree with you. But in reality, this is not a chat forum. It is a support forum, so that danger would be virtually non-existent.

and people would ask questions because they don't know the answers. so how is it right to say that they can judge an answer is correct just because it works in their particular case when they didn't know the answer to begin with?

I'm not sure I understand you here. You seem to be answering your own question.  It's the right answer, because it works. Are there better answers? Maybe, maybe not.  But given the many scenarios out there, from php/sql versions, platforms they are run on, features enabled/disabled, structure of the rest of their script, etc.. etc.. too many to even name, the bottom line is that the only person really qualified to judge whether it worked or not was the person who asked the question in the first place. 


unfortunately i didn't have time to read your entire post so i'll just reply to what you quoted me on.
i'll give you a rough example...it's not the best one but i'm sure you'll get what i mean.

clueless user = CU
helper = H


CU: hi, i have a problem. i would like to load an extension into PHP dynamically. how would i do this?
H: what's the name of the extension you want to load?
CU: it's called "myextension.so"
H: ok, then do this: dl('myextension.so');
CU: thanks, that worked fine! you deserve karma for that one

2 months later, CU switches to a windows based host and the extension won't load because on windows, the extension isn't generally .so, it's .dll
or he might have been on a windows machine and loaded the dll version instead and then switched to *nix and it would still have broken.

what H should have told him to do is to use this: dl(myextension.' . PHP_SHLIB_SUFFIX); because that will work on any OS.
while H's answer isn't totally wrong, it's also not totally right because it will only work under some circumstances.

so now you have a majority of windows based developers asking that same question and H keeps giving that same answer and gets his karma and it's possible he's not aware that *nix uses an .so extension.

a *nix based user comes along with a similar problem but H's solution doesn't work for him...obviously. H is going to insist his solution worked everytime before even though it didn't work for this *nix user.

his advice would make all the difference in the world for a windows user and would be useless to a *nix user. so this *nix user would be utterly confused as to why the solution by a member with such a high karma rating doesn't work on his system. this *nix user decides it must be something else wrong with his code and spends ages trying to figure it out. now why does H have such high karma to begin with? because it worked for some users in a particular environment.

it's like asking one of the people who go put out in the first few rounds of American Idol to judge the competition.


the bottom line is that the only person really qualified to judge whether it worked or not was the person who asked the question in the first place.

why do i think this argument is invalid? because you can do some things in many ways in PHP but not all of them will work all the time but how would a newbie who's not sure how to even use dl() know that? if it works for him, he will probably think it would work for everyone else.


this is one of the reasons why i'm not a fan of karma. it can be misleading. this is just my opinion. i don't expect you to agree with it, just stating how i see it.

#13 .josh

.josh
  • Staff Alumni
  • .josh
  • 14,871 posts

Posted 02 July 2006 - 07:45 AM

and you're entitled to your opinion, and your'e right, I do disagree with it. 

And here's my opinion to you and the others who have said this: "I didn't bother to read your post because..." if you aren't going to respect my arguments, then why should i bother to read/respect yours? I've addressed most of you guys' concerns in my posts. Had you read it, you would have possible counter-argued.  If you think that's rude, then good. I think it's rude to say you didn't bother to read my post but i'm gonna debate with you anyways.

The "what works for one person may not work for another person, so karma can be misleading" argument is not valid, because like I said, there are a million different things to consider for each individual user. That was the point in my statement that the person asking the question is the most qualified to judge whether your solution worked or not. 

do you know everything there is to know about PHP and how to use it in the most efficient way possible, for every circumstance? Can anybody honestly say that about themselves? The great thing about an open community like this, is this:

clueless user = CU
helper = H

CU: how can I get my webpage to show the numbers one through ten?
H1: do this: echo "12345678910";
CU: thanks! that worked great!
H2: a more convenient way would be to do this: for($x=1;$x<11;$x++) { echo $x; }
CU: thanks again!
CU2: Okay i tried H2's method and it doesn't seem to work for me, here's my code: blahblahblah
H1/H2/H3/Hx: okay blahblahblah

You see on the one hand I will agree with you: even though H1 got a karma point, his method is not the best.  But that's not the point.  the point is that he tried to help out, and his method worked, and CU showed appreciation by giving a karma point.  You only say that it is misleading because you expect it to only be accurate if all helpers were 100% experts, but in reality, this simply isn't true. 

And here's another reality check: everywhere there are stickies, posts, siggies, etc.. you name it that beg people to search through the forums for answers.  People respond to certain questions all the time by "did you bother to search?" Why? Because in reality, people don't bother to search. They are too lazy. Or they think their problem has never been remotely touched upon.  Or they don't have time. Or some other <insert reason here>.  How many times have you seen a thread from 2 month, even 2 weeks, hell, even 2 days, being responded to? Not very often.  And seems like 9 times out of 10 if someone actually does post in an old thread, they get scolded (even by mods, i have witnessed) for resurrecting old threads instead of posting new threads.

There is no system out there that will be 100% accurate. And yet we have systems implemented that are less accurate than others. You say that you do not like the karma system. You also say that you don't care for the post count system either.  You say that both are misleading and inaccurate.  But which would you say is closer to being a true estimate? Surely you must at least agree that the karma system is significantly more accurate than the post count system, even though it's not accurate enough for your standards.  Therefore, why not petition to have the post count system removed, as well?  You say you don't agree with it, so if the karma system is not to be implemented, then let's petition to have the post counts removed as well. Every single reason you have given to not implement the karma system and lots more reason can be used to remove it. You've already argued it's invalidness. So if you really feel that way, let's officially petition to have the post count system removed instead. What say you?

Oh and also, there are stats links that show time online, and top 10 users by time online. This might lead people to believe these people are around to help and can help them too.  This too can be misleading, as someone could be on here 24/7 looking for help themselves.  We should petition to have that removed too.  I'm not being facetious. Let's petition to have all this misleading stuff removed. 

Ober, I summon you!

Did I help you? Feeling generous? Buy me lunch! 
Please, take the time and do some research and find out how much it would have cost you to get your help from a decent paid-for source. A "roll-of-the-dice" freelancer will charge you $5-$15/hr. A decent entry level freelancer will charge you around $15-30/hr. A professional will charge you anywhere from $50-$100/hr. An agency will charge anywhere from $100-$250/hr. Think about all this when soliciting for help here. Think about how much money you are making from the work you are asking for help on. No, we do not expect you to pay for the help given here, but donating a few bucks is a fraction of the cost of what you would have paid, shows your appreciation, helps motivate people to keep offering help without the pricetag, and helps make this a higher quality free-help community :)

#14 Koobi

Koobi
  • Staff Alumni
  • Advanced Member
  • 419 posts
  • LocationColombo, Sri Lanka | South Asia

Posted 02 July 2006 - 05:53 PM

And here's my opinion to you and the others who have said this: "I didn't bother to read your post because..." if you aren't going to respect my arguments, then why should i bother to read/respect yours? I've addressed most of you guys' concerns in my posts. Had you read it, you would have possible counter-argued.  If you think that's rude, then good. I think it's rude to say you didn't bother to read my post but i'm gonna debate with you anyways.


you need to calm down and read my post properly. there's a difference between not bothering (as you put it) and wanted to read but not having the time or the state of mind to comprehend that especially when the person who had to read has been working a crazy week with some crazy deadlines at work. which is why i only read the part you quoted me on.



The "what works for one person may not work for another person, so karma can be misleading" argument is not valid, because like I said, there are a million different things to consider for each individual user. That was the point in my statement that the person asking the question is the most qualified to judge whether your solution worked or not. 

do you know everything there is to know about PHP and how to use it in the most efficient way possible, for every circumstance? Can anybody honestly say that about themselves? The great thing about an open community like this, is this:

clueless user = CU
helper = H

CU: how can I get my webpage to show the numbers one through ten?
H1: do this: echo "12345678910";
CU: thanks! that worked great!
H2: a more convenient way would be to do this: for($x=1;$x<11;$x++) { echo $x; }
CU: thanks again!
CU2: Okay i tried H2's method and it doesn't seem to work for me, here's my code: blahblahblah
H1/H2/H3/Hx: okay blahblahblah


i think you made my point for me. NOBODY knows everything about PHP (i don't think even Rasmus Lerdorf knows everything about it) which is why nobody should judge if an answer is right in the first place. i don't think  something like this should be on a forum unless it's absolutely necessary.




There is no system out there that will be 100% accurate. And yet we have systems implemented that are less accurate than others. You say that you do not like the karma system. You also say that you don't care for the post count system either.  You say that both are misleading and inaccurate.  But which would you say is closer to being a true estimate? Surely you must at least agree that the karma system is significantly more accurate than the post count system, even though it's not accurate enough for your standards.  Therefore, why not petition to have the post count system removed, as well?  You say you don't agree with it, so if the karma system is not to be implemented, then let's petition to have the post counts removed as well. Every single reason you have given to not implement the karma system and lots more reason can be used to remove it. You've already argued it's invalidness. So if you really feel that way, let's officially petition to have the post count system removed instead. What say you?


in this particular case, accuracy is a relative term therefore i don't see it as plausible if i'm going to talk about karma being used for the reasons mentioned in the previous posts of this thread.

i don't want to petition against anything. it is just my opinion. the admins do a good job running the site and it should boil down to their judgement even if it's against my opinion...as long as it doesn't hurt me, i don't really care, that's just how i am. i honestly don't have the time for a "petition" over such a small thing. this is the internet...it's a nice PHP community where we come to help people, talk to people with similar coding interests and also learn new tricks from others. the only thing i would change about this site is the colour scheme because it hurts my eyes :) but other than that, nothing else really bothers me.
don't get me wrong, i have no problem with voicing my opinion or telling someone very bluntly if i disagree with them or fighting against something that i believe is wrong or immoral with everything i have...but this is the internet and having the post count on the side there doesn't REALLY bother me so i ignore it.
maybe if i had more free time i would go on some sort of campaign/petition for something random...i don't know but that's not my priority right now.




Oh and also, there are stats links that show time online, and top 10 users by time online. This might lead people to believe these people are around to help and can help them too.  This too can be misleading, as someone could be on here 24/7 looking for help themselves.  We should petition to have that removed too.  I'm not being facetious. Let's petition to have all this misleading stuff removed. 

i don't know if you're trying to be cynical. if you are, there's no need to. this is a friendly discussion :)
if you're not, i apologize for assuming that you were :)



it's clear we have different ways of looking at things therefore i doubt we can ever come to an agreement on this. why don't we just leave this be or it can go on forever and i don't have the time to make long posts :) don't get me wrong there.

i'm happy with whatever decision the admins make.

#15 Philip

Philip
  • Staff Alumni
  • Phailip
  • 4,769 posts

Posted 03 July 2006 - 02:28 AM

Ok, I would like to jump in right here.

This is a little offtopic but, I'm going to be completely honost here:

I've always seen most people on PhpFreaks as rude, because when I was learning I would search around, not find my question, so I would ask. I seemed to get responses like "Oh someone already asked that, look around," but I did...

I work with customer support on another site, the one thing I make sure to do is address each problem, and read the post completely. If I know I don't have time to read it all, I'll wait until I do.
Saying stuff like

unfortunately i didn't have time to read your entire post so i'll just reply to what you quoted me on.

just gives the impression to me like you don't have time for this site. Yes, we all have outside lifes... well, for the most part, but you don't ever tell the customer that.


Anyways,

I think something like the Karma mod for SMF would be nice, maybe just the user that put up the topic could say "Was this user helpful in this topic? Yes/No/Undecided." It serioulsy can't be that hard to make your own mods for this site, I mean come on its phpFreaks!!!

Basically, something like the karma mod would be nice imo :)

#16 Koobi

Koobi
  • Staff Alumni
  • Advanced Member
  • 419 posts
  • LocationColombo, Sri Lanka | South Asia

Posted 03 July 2006 - 03:56 AM

Ok, I would like to jump in right here.

This is a little offtopic but, I'm going to be completely honost here:

I've always seen most people on PhpFreaks as rude, because when I was learning I would search around, not find my question, so I would ask. I seemed to get responses like "Oh someone already asked that, look around," but I did...

I work with customer support on another site, the one thing I make sure to do is address each problem, and read the post completely. If I know I don't have time to read it all, I'll wait until I do.
Saying stuff like

unfortunately i didn't have time to read your entire post so i'll just reply to what you quoted me on.

just gives the impression to me like you don't have time for this site. Yes, we all have outside lifes... well, for the most part, but you don't ever tell the customer that.


Anyways,

I think something like the Karma mod for SMF would be nice, maybe just the user that put up the topic could say "Was this user helpful in this topic? Yes/No/Undecided." It serioulsy can't be that hard to make your own mods for this site, I mean come on its phpFreaks!!!

Basically, something like the karma mod would be nice imo :)


customer support is your job where you're paid to do respond to each customers query and it's your duty.
if you could ask your boss to pay me to read each and every post here i'd be glad to :)

#17 Philip

Philip
  • Staff Alumni
  • Phailip
  • 4,769 posts

Posted 03 July 2006 - 04:08 AM

I hate to break it to you, but I don't get paid either ;)

#18 .josh

.josh
  • Staff Alumni
  • .josh
  • 14,871 posts

Posted 03 July 2006 - 04:12 AM

wait so koobi are you saying that you, as a mod, shouldn't have to read posts before responding to them, because you aren't paid? that doesn't sound like proper mod attitude...

edit:

i'm not trying to start some kind of fight here..that's just the impression i just got. please clarify if that's not what you meant?
Did I help you? Feeling generous? Buy me lunch! 
Please, take the time and do some research and find out how much it would have cost you to get your help from a decent paid-for source. A "roll-of-the-dice" freelancer will charge you $5-$15/hr. A decent entry level freelancer will charge you around $15-30/hr. A professional will charge you anywhere from $50-$100/hr. An agency will charge anywhere from $100-$250/hr. Think about all this when soliciting for help here. Think about how much money you are making from the work you are asking for help on. No, we do not expect you to pay for the help given here, but donating a few bucks is a fraction of the cost of what you would have paid, shows your appreciation, helps motivate people to keep offering help without the pricetag, and helps make this a higher quality free-help community :)

#19 Koobi

Koobi
  • Staff Alumni
  • Advanced Member
  • 419 posts
  • LocationColombo, Sri Lanka | South Asia

Posted 03 July 2006 - 04:30 AM

wait so koobi are you saying that you, as a mod, shouldn't have to read posts before responding to them, because you aren't paid? that doesn't sound like proper mod attitude...

edit:

i'm not trying to start some kind of fight here..that's just the impression i just got. please clarify if that's not what you meant?


nobody reads every post on every thread. i have no time these days. i read the part of the discussion you quoted me on. if you want me to read a part of your post which you quoted someone else on, then you should say so. why would i want to read the part of the post you quoted someone else on? my discussion is with you, not with the other person you qouted the post on.

if it's a critical thread of course i'd read the entire thread but this is just a discussion about karma...which i think has gone a little too far...

#20 Philip

Philip
  • Staff Alumni
  • Phailip
  • 4,769 posts

Posted 03 July 2006 - 04:47 AM

wait so koobi are you saying that you, as a mod, shouldn't have to read posts before responding to them, because you aren't paid? that doesn't sound like proper mod attitude...

edit:

i'm not trying to start some kind of fight here..that's just the impression i just got. please clarify if that's not what you meant?


nobody reads every post on every thread. i have no time these days. i read the part of the discussion you quoted me on. if you want me to read a part of your post which you quoted someone else on, then you should say so. why would i want to read the part of the post you quoted someone else on? my discussion is with you, not with the other person you qouted the post on.

if it's a critical thread of course i'd read the entire thread but this is just a discussion about karma...which i think has gone a little too far...


Like I said in the beginning, I feel like most people are here are rude.

I'm sorry, but I really don't want to come back here because of your attitude. You might not take me seriously because I don't have posts on this forum, but dont mistake me for not being mature or responsible. I've had plenty of times working under pressure, with no time, limited supplies and I can pull out just fine. Do I tell the people that are looking up to me that I don't have time for them? No, I don't, I at least TRY to make time.

I don't know if I'm going to come back here ever again, because it seems like some of the staff are complete donkeys (if you know what I mean.)




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users