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.josh

what, no karma?

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a) I..bah, i'll just skip to this part here:
[quote]
so since we seem to have the main topic sorted out, let's give this thread a break Smiley
[/quote]
Since I will agree that this is overall the best course of action, in recognition of your sage-like advice, I award you one karma point  ;)


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[quote author=Crayon Violent link=topic=99076.msg390858#msg390858 date=1151904679]
a) I..bah, i'll just skip to this part here:
[quote]
so since we seem to have the main topic sorted out, let's give this thread a break Smiley
[/quote]
Since I will agree that this is overall the best course of action, in recognition of your sage-like advice, I award you one karma point  ;)



[/quote]

well hey since the karma system has been added anyway, and you had some valid points and you seem to be dedicated to this board, one karma to you too :)

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Congratulation [b]Crayon Violent![/b]

You won the discussion the KARMA is now back.

And where is the button of Karma? I want to press it? he, he

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You have to have X posts (whatever they set it as)

It will be under the user's name on the left side and will look like:
[quote]Karma: +2/-0
[applaud] [smite][/quote]

:)

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well actually... i have no idea why it was decided to re-instate it.  None of the admins came here to put their 2 cents in or anything.  The only mod to say anything was Koobi and (no offense) i don't think he knows anything, cuz he repeatedly mentioned it's up to the higher ups, etc.. I would assume that if there was some kind of discussion going on in the mod lounge he probably would have at least said something along the lines of "it is being discussed." 

LoL, for all I know someone could have just re-instated it cuz they were tired of hearing me whine about it so they did it to just shut me up  ;D  :-[

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hehe yeah i don't know what the admins had planned for the karma issue.

actually i think it was decided at the beginning, it was probably missing because they're still in the process of tweaking the site.

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see that's the thing though: when you install SMF it's on by default.  When I first logged on to the new forum, it was on.  It was there.  Then it dissappeared. So someone had to have gone in and disabled it.  Accident? Maybe. Who knows.  And I have a sneaking suspicion we may never know.

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I'm the guilty party.  It was on after the transfer, but I turned it off.  Karma and/or any kind of rewards system is normally a bad thing in a community like this.  You end up getting n00bie helper's saying stuff like "... did I help you?  Can you add some Karma to me"?  And crap like that.  And then you get the people that think it's funny to just sit there and smite you all day just to make you look bad.

It turns into a big joke and then it eventually gets turned off.  I was trying to head it off at the pass.  I guess someone else wanted it bad enough.

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And then you get a situation like this :-

I help 100 people who dont care/don't know the karma system

You help 5 people who do.

Result: Your karma = +5, my karma = 0

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I agree with the no-karma crowd. The idea is great, but I don't think it is implemented properly. For example--unless I'm missing something--karma is tied to the user, not the post. The posts are what's valuable, in my opinion. That is to say, karma is reflecting the user's overall activity on the forum, not what they actually know or are more skilled at.

Another fault is that it is not tied into the forum/site itself--in short, it's just a number. User A with +100 karma and user B with +10 karma are on the same plane. I like how the experience system works over at www.perlmonks.net; however, it is integrated into the entire site, not just a forum area, which gives it more meaning.

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Karma is not something that you give people for helping you, IMO. I think it is like, "Well this member seems pretty nice and intent on helping so I will give him good karma." or "This member is kinda mean, or rude, so he gets bad karma." That way other members, noobies, will know which members they might want to talk to one on one with and which ones they might want to leave alone.

just my thoughts, as that is how I always looked at karma.

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[quote author=steelmanronald06 link=topic=99076.msg393596#msg393596 date=1152375003]
Karma is not something that you give people for helping you, IMO. I think it is like, "Well this member seems pretty nice and intent on helping so I will give him good karma." or "This member is kinda mean, or rude, so he gets bad karma." That way other members, noobies, will know which members they might want to talk to one on one with and which ones they might want to leave alone.[/quote]

That's a good view of karma, but again, is it built into the forum? If a user is being unruly and racks up -10 karma, are the admins or moderators notified? If a user is here all the time and very helpful, are the admins or moderators notified when they rack up, say, +100 karma, so they could be considered for a higher status? Perhaps this happens now, I don't know.

I hold the view that: (1) if a user is going to be a jerk, some one is going to notice and report it; and (2) if a user is helpful, a moderator or admin is going to notice. Both of these happened often when we did not have a karma system.

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I am not sure how the karma works on the admin/mod level. I think it is basically a way for members to rank other members, or to give their opinion on a member, so the noobie members know who it might be best to talk to. I know alot of people will abuse it by ranking members they hate bad, but then the other members who likes them can just rank them good.

I am not too familar with Karma, I just have my views on why it might be useful.  If thantos reads this, perhaps he can shed light on the exact workings of Karma.

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AFAIK, Karma on SMF is a pretty "dumb" system... not that it's "bad"... but it's not tied to any actions like effigy suggests.

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i'll go ahead and add my few cents.  i neither agree nor disagree with the system, but not many have asked the question "what users will actually pay attention the karma values?"

back when i was getting answers here, i would take whatever solutions were presented me and decide (if there were more than one) which one i liked best.  along the road, i'd find or make another solution to match my problem.  that's the learning process.  i never paid attention to who had the most posts, i just took what people were gracious enough to reply with.  granted some of it was worthless (read: horse shit), but you get that in every forum.

as i said, i'm a neutral party in terms of the system's workings/implications themselves - i simply stake my flag in the "why bother?" category.

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IMO, and ignoring what everyone else wrote above because thats just way to much reading, I don't like the karma on this site.

I think, for the purpose of this community, it isn't warrented.  It would be appropriate if we had a "general / off topic" section that was less formal and more indusive to relationship building - but here, especially with all the numerious one-post-wonders and newbies, i just don't think its appropriate.

plus, i want to know who gave me bad karma already? what did I do to who?  that pisses me off!

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wow, this absolutely amazes me! haha... makes for some interesting afternoon reading, though. if we're voting, i'd have to throw my votes in with the "no-karma" crowd. i don't care whether or not it's there, but i think it has too much of a propencity to be abused to be of any real help, however, i think that most mature users are going to feel the same way and not really pay much attention to what the numbers are anyway! :lol:

steelmanronald, i think that's probably the best view of the karma system that i've heard, though. it makes more sense (especially with the name "karma") that it is a reflection of your effect on people more than your actual expertise. i mean, like barand said, if i help 100 people that don't give a hoot about karma and you help 3 people who do....

...and the discussion continues. lol

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It would probably be less abused if the recipient were to be notified of a karma change, why and by whom.

Or perhaps like the old "warn" system which would show the log of changes.

If it's anonymous, as now, then people can change it just for fun.

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I wonder if anyone from the SMF team is reading this......

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haha i only just noticed that barand's status is "senile."  probably because you've been here since the start, but just for that i'm gracing you.

any man that old deserves good karma.

[b]EDIT:  i just noticed that that's a profile setting.  barand, i think it takes courage to admit senility.[/b]

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[quote author=ober link=topic=99076.msg395384#msg395384 date=1152647294]
I wonder if anyone from the SMF team is reading this......
[/quote]

I am...

There are a couple of different mods that will do what akitchin has requested:

http://mods.simplemachines.org/index.php?mod=192 - Karma description mod. This one allows the user to add a reason for each karma action, which is then displayed to the recipient of that action

http://mods.simplemachines.org/index.php?mod=192 - Karma Log. This one logs all the karma actions. Currently doesn't work with this version of SMF, but I can always update it for you if you're interested in it.

There's also the "Karma Wait Time" option. This lets you specify how many minutes a user must wait between consecutive karma actions. This will prevent people from sitting there smiting and/or applauding the same user over and over again.

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[quote]or people asking questions and being ungrateful or not paying attention to advice offered, etc... Do you report to the mods when this stuff happens, or do you simply ignore them, or point it out yourself? [/quote]
I was at a forum for a php web log application and a person had asked if a certain thing could be done. All the answers were NOOO! You cant do THAT! I happened to have found a way to do it, posted details about how I did it, and the thread continued as if I didn't exist.  Wow how I'd like to be able to "smite" the person for ignoring me. Keep karma.

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Karma valuable? 4000+ posts, 7 topics started and I have minus 1.  That speaks volumes about its usefulness.

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I've got a -1 too. By sheer coincidence, it appeared just after I asked someone not to double-post. Perils of being a mod.

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