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what, no karma?


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#21 Koobi

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 04:56 AM

Like I said in the beginning, I feel like most people are here are rude.

I'm sorry, but I really don't want to come back here because of your attitude. You might not take me seriously because I don't have posts on this forum, but dont mistake me for not being mature or responsible. I've had plenty of times working under pressure, with no time, limited supplies and I can pull out just fine. Do I tell the people that are looking up to me that I don't have time for them? No, I don't, I at least TRY to make time.

I don't know if I'm going to come back here ever again, because it seems like some of the staff are complete donkeys (if you know what I mean.)


i'm sorry that you feel that way but that's your opinion.

i feel that you are being rude by assuming that i'm not taking you seriously because of your post count. i don't even look at a persons post count and as far as i'm concerned, your post is judging me without even knowing me.
look at my post count and compare it to the post count of the other mods? see the difference? now why would i judge a person by their post count?

and don't talk about time. you have no idea what hours i have to put it and i wont talk to you about time because i have no idea what your lifestyle is like. people have commitments apart from work and a social life. some people have other commitments that require constant attention. it may be a personal matter.

and i'd rather spend more of my time helping on the forum than reading a thread in the miscellaneous section of the forum that was just a discussion to begin with...which may have been another reason why i chose not to read this entire thread...but since you're in the mood to judge a person without knowing the facts, i don't expect you to realize that :)

by the way, i happen to think donkeys are very fine animals :)

#22 Philip

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 05:05 AM

So I might have been a little rude too, sorry.

Oh, and if you didnt notice, Karma is back ;)

#23 Koobi

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 05:09 AM

So I might have been a little rude too, sorry.

Oh, and if you didnt notice, Karma is back ;)


yep :) it's back
but like i said, it's the admins decision. i was just stating my opinion in this thread and somehow it got taken way out of proportion.

#24 .josh

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 05:19 AM

wait so koobi are you saying that you, as a mod, shouldn't have to read posts before responding to them, because you aren't paid? that doesn't sound like proper mod attitude...

edit:

i'm not trying to start some kind of fight here..that's just the impression i just got. please clarify if that's not what you meant?


nobody reads every post on every thread. i have no time these days. i read the part of the discussion you quoted me on. if you want me to read a part of your post which you quoted someone else on, then you should say so. why would i want to read the part of the post you quoted someone else on? my discussion is with you, not with the other person you qouted the post on.

if it's a critical thread of course i'd read the entire thread but this is just a discussion about karma...which i think has gone a little too far...

well i just thought that

a) since you decided to take part in this discussion and put your 2 cents in, that you would at least listen to the other side of the argument. How are you going to learn anything new, or else reaffirm your own opinions, if you shut your ears and eyes and start talking? I understand your lack of time.  The decent thing to have done was not to respond at all, if you weren't going to put both feet in the water. 

b) I understand that it is not possible for a single mod to read every post on every thread.  Or even an army of mods.  But one of the functions of a mod is to make sure people are posting within guidelines.  I would at the very least assume that for the threads/posts that you do have the time to read, that you would excercise your duties as a mod to well..moderate.  Or am I mistaken in what the duties of a mod are, around here? I suppose the duties vary from board to board.  Please do not hesitate to correct me if I am wrong. 

I agree nobody does read every post in every thread in every forum on this board.  Not even me.  But I do take the time to read the posts in the threads that I do go to.  It just seems like common courtesy.  It helps to avoid situations like people posting the same things twice, or saying things that have nothing to do with the conversation.  It's the same basic flaw of evesdropping on a conversation:you're bound to interpret something wrong cuz you didn't hear the whole thing.  It's the same basic flaw of putting your hands over your ears and closing your eyes and trying to talk to someone.  It's really hard.  My son tries stuff like that sometimes. It's actually kind of funny. 

And as far as this discussion being taken out of proportion: I have to disagree.  I will agree that this thread has strayed from the OT and maybe everybody started to get their feathers ruffled, but I do not believe the original debate itself got out of proportion.

peace.

Did I help you? Feeling generous? Buy me lunch! 
Please, take the time and do some research and find out how much it would have cost you to get your help from a decent paid-for source. A "roll-of-the-dice" freelancer will charge you $5-$15/hr. A decent entry level freelancer will charge you around $15-30/hr. A professional will charge you anywhere from $50-$100/hr. An agency will charge anywhere from $100-$250/hr. Think about all this when soliciting for help here. Think about how much money you are making from the work you are asking for help on. No, we do not expect you to pay for the help given here, but donating a few bucks is a fraction of the cost of what you would have paid, shows your appreciation, helps motivate people to keep offering help without the pricetag, and helps make this a higher quality free-help community :)

#25 Koobi

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 05:25 AM

a) look at your reply to my post. you quoted me on my post. i read that part of your post since that is what is relevant to me. why would i want to read your reply to the other guys post when it does not concern me?

b) when i say i didn't read the entire post i didn't mean i didn't even glance over it to make sure things are ok, i just did not process it. don't take things so literally.


it's not a matter of posting the same thing twice in this situation because you posted quoting me so i have to reply to your question with my own opinion even if someone shares my opinion because i would have to state my opinion.


so since we seem to have the main topic sorted out, let's give this thread a break :)

#26 .josh

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 05:31 AM

a) I..bah, i'll just skip to this part here:

so since we seem to have the main topic sorted out, let's give this thread a break Smiley

Since I will agree that this is overall the best course of action, in recognition of your sage-like advice, I award you one karma point  ;)



Did I help you? Feeling generous? Buy me lunch! 
Please, take the time and do some research and find out how much it would have cost you to get your help from a decent paid-for source. A "roll-of-the-dice" freelancer will charge you $5-$15/hr. A decent entry level freelancer will charge you around $15-30/hr. A professional will charge you anywhere from $50-$100/hr. An agency will charge anywhere from $100-$250/hr. Think about all this when soliciting for help here. Think about how much money you are making from the work you are asking for help on. No, we do not expect you to pay for the help given here, but donating a few bucks is a fraction of the cost of what you would have paid, shows your appreciation, helps motivate people to keep offering help without the pricetag, and helps make this a higher quality free-help community :)

#27 Koobi

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 05:35 AM

a) I..bah, i'll just skip to this part here:

so since we seem to have the main topic sorted out, let's give this thread a break Smiley

Since I will agree that this is overall the best course of action, in recognition of your sage-like advice, I award you one karma point  ;)




well hey since the karma system has been added anyway, and you had some valid points and you seem to be dedicated to this board, one karma to you too :)

#28 bilis_money

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 05:57 AM

Congratulation Crayon Violent!

You won the discussion the KARMA is now back.

And where is the button of Karma? I want to press it? he, he

#29 Philip

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 05:59 AM

You have to have X posts (whatever they set it as)

It will be under the user's name on the left side and will look like:

Karma: +2/-0
[applaud] [smite]


:)

#30 .josh

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 06:11 AM

well actually... i have no idea why it was decided to re-instate it.  None of the admins came here to put their 2 cents in or anything.  The only mod to say anything was Koobi and (no offense) i don't think he knows anything, cuz he repeatedly mentioned it's up to the higher ups, etc.. I would assume that if there was some kind of discussion going on in the mod lounge he probably would have at least said something along the lines of "it is being discussed." 

LoL, for all I know someone could have just re-instated it cuz they were tired of hearing me whine about it so they did it to just shut me up  ;D  :-[
Did I help you? Feeling generous? Buy me lunch! 
Please, take the time and do some research and find out how much it would have cost you to get your help from a decent paid-for source. A "roll-of-the-dice" freelancer will charge you $5-$15/hr. A decent entry level freelancer will charge you around $15-30/hr. A professional will charge you anywhere from $50-$100/hr. An agency will charge anywhere from $100-$250/hr. Think about all this when soliciting for help here. Think about how much money you are making from the work you are asking for help on. No, we do not expect you to pay for the help given here, but donating a few bucks is a fraction of the cost of what you would have paid, shows your appreciation, helps motivate people to keep offering help without the pricetag, and helps make this a higher quality free-help community :)

#31 Koobi

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 06:36 AM

hehe yeah i don't know what the admins had planned for the karma issue.

actually i think it was decided at the beginning, it was probably missing because they're still in the process of tweaking the site.

#32 .josh

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 07:00 AM

see that's the thing though: when you install SMF it's on by default.  When I first logged on to the new forum, it was on.  It was there.  Then it dissappeared. So someone had to have gone in and disabled it.  Accident? Maybe. Who knows.  And I have a sneaking suspicion we may never know.

Did I help you? Feeling generous? Buy me lunch! 
Please, take the time and do some research and find out how much it would have cost you to get your help from a decent paid-for source. A "roll-of-the-dice" freelancer will charge you $5-$15/hr. A decent entry level freelancer will charge you around $15-30/hr. A professional will charge you anywhere from $50-$100/hr. An agency will charge anywhere from $100-$250/hr. Think about all this when soliciting for help here. Think about how much money you are making from the work you are asking for help on. No, we do not expect you to pay for the help given here, but donating a few bucks is a fraction of the cost of what you would have paid, shows your appreciation, helps motivate people to keep offering help without the pricetag, and helps make this a higher quality free-help community :)

#33 ober

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 02:50 PM

I'm the guilty party.  It was on after the transfer, but I turned it off.  Karma and/or any kind of rewards system is normally a bad thing in a community like this.  You end up getting n00bie helper's saying stuff like "... did I help you?  Can you add some Karma to me"?  And crap like that.  And then you get the people that think it's funny to just sit there and smite you all day just to make you look bad.

It turns into a big joke and then it eventually gets turned off.  I was trying to head it off at the pass.  I guess someone else wanted it bad enough.

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#34 Barand

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Posted 07 July 2006 - 08:46 PM

And then you get a situation like this :-

I help 100 people who dont care/don't know the karma system

You help 5 people who do.

Result: Your karma = +5, my karma = 0
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#35 effigy

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Posted 07 July 2006 - 09:16 PM

I agree with the no-karma crowd. The idea is great, but I don't think it is implemented properly. For example--unless I'm missing something--karma is tied to the user, not the post. The posts are what's valuable, in my opinion. That is to say, karma is reflecting the user's overall activity on the forum, not what they actually know or are more skilled at.

Another fault is that it is not tied into the forum/site itself--in short, it's just a number. User A with +100 karma and user B with +10 karma are on the same plane. I like how the experience system works over at www.perlmonks.net; however, it is integrated into the entire site, not just a forum area, which gives it more meaning.
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#36 steelmanronald06

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Posted 08 July 2006 - 04:10 PM

Karma is not something that you give people for helping you, IMO. I think it is like, "Well this member seems pretty nice and intent on helping so I will give him good karma." or "This member is kinda mean, or rude, so he gets bad karma." That way other members, noobies, will know which members they might want to talk to one on one with and which ones they might want to leave alone.

just my thoughts, as that is how I always looked at karma.

#37 effigy

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Posted 08 July 2006 - 04:29 PM

Karma is not something that you give people for helping you, IMO. I think it is like, "Well this member seems pretty nice and intent on helping so I will give him good karma." or "This member is kinda mean, or rude, so he gets bad karma." That way other members, noobies, will know which members they might want to talk to one on one with and which ones they might want to leave alone.


That's a good view of karma, but again, is it built into the forum? If a user is being unruly and racks up -10 karma, are the admins or moderators notified? If a user is here all the time and very helpful, are the admins or moderators notified when they rack up, say, +100 karma, so they could be considered for a higher status? Perhaps this happens now, I don't know.

I hold the view that: (1) if a user is going to be a jerk, some one is going to notice and report it; and (2) if a user is helpful, a moderator or admin is going to notice. Both of these happened often when we did not have a karma system.
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#38 steelmanronald06

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Posted 10 July 2006 - 01:08 AM

I am not sure how the karma works on the admin/mod level. I think it is basically a way for members to rank other members, or to give their opinion on a member, so the noobie members know who it might be best to talk to. I know alot of people will abuse it by ranking members they hate bad, but then the other members who likes them can just rank them good.

I am not too familar with Karma, I just have my views on why it might be useful.  If thantos reads this, perhaps he can shed light on the exact workings of Karma.

#39 ober

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Posted 10 July 2006 - 12:37 PM

AFAIK, Karma on SMF is a pretty "dumb" system... not that it's "bad"... but it's not tied to any actions like effigy suggests.

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#40 akitchin

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Posted 11 July 2006 - 04:39 AM

i'll go ahead and add my few cents.  i neither agree nor disagree with the system, but not many have asked the question "what users will actually pay attention the karma values?"

back when i was getting answers here, i would take whatever solutions were presented me and decide (if there were more than one) which one i liked best.  along the road, i'd find or make another solution to match my problem.  that's the learning process.  i never paid attention to who had the most posts, i just took what people were gracious enough to reply with.  granted some of it was worthless (read: horse shit), but you get that in every forum.

as i said, i'm a neutral party in terms of the system's workings/implications themselves - i simply stake my flag in the "why bother?" category.




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