haku Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 guys you are missing the point - it isn't about who your target audience is - its about the correct implementation of a technology. I disagree fully in that the correct implementation of a technology is the one that meets the needs of the target audience. It may be annoying for you when flash isn't visible because you have javascript turned off, but you have decided to go against the set standard - which is to have javascript enabled - in doing that. If I were designing a site for corporate clients in an industry where I knew the standard was that javascript would be off, it would be different, but that is rarely the case. Now for anything other than flash, I will make a javascript fallback, but unless it's a flash site, flash is rarely essential to the operation of the site. And if it is, such as a menu, and HTML fallback should be given. Making a flash site is not worth it do u guys agree? Not at all. Flash sites can be great if implemented properly, and if the content fits the need for flash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonMariner Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 @haku - have you heard of progressive enhancement? accessibility? standards compliance? 508 or the DDA (UK law)? I disagree fully in that the correct implementation of a technology is the one that meets the needs of the target audience. Would you build a a site offering deals that can only be bought via your site and builiding it in such a manner as to require javascript to be present/on to be able to use it? or build it purely in flash? No you wouldn't because you (should) know its not the right thing to do. If you did you could be prosecuted - the reason for that is there are techniques available to achieve these things with minimal requirements from a browser. fact is you can implement flash without javascript and because you can you should, as a professional, implement that in a fashion that is as all inclusive as possible - regardless of your target audience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haku Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Would you build a a site offering deals that can only be bought via your site and builiding it in such a manner as to require javascript to be present/on to be able to use it? or build it purely in flash? No I wouldn't. But not because it wouldn't meet the needs of my target audience, but rather because I wouldn't want to lose potential sales from people who didn't have it enabled. This is different in that the driving force behind it is myself, not my users. If you did you could be prosecuted No I couldn't. We don't all live in the land of litigation. fact is you can implement flash without javascript and because you can you should, as a professional, implement that in a fashion that is as all inclusive as possible - regardless of your target audience. I'd rather use the cleaner, cross-browser friendly method of swfobject. And anyone who ignores their target audiences it not a true professional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonMariner Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 haku - I don't get it. You clearly have the right attitude towards what should be done but I find it odd you don't apply it to how you work. Do you think I ignore my target audience by using the nested object method? Is my target audience not able to access the content I want them to have? Would you concede that the nested object method not only provides for your target audience but also for those on the fringes of it and even outside? Is that not what the web is about - being inclusive? Anyone who is blinkered in their target audience and fails to provide for the fringes is not a true professional IMO. Oh and by the way - yes you can be prosecuted if your site offers a service or goods and certain people cannot use it to access those services/goods. One site was prosecuted because they didn't put alt attributes on images... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haku Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Trust me, I can't be prosecuted. It just doesn't happen in this country. I'm not saying it can't happen in some countries, but besides the fact that the laws don't even exist here, even if they did, lawyers are scarce, and it's a non-litigious society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonMariner Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 fair enough. but I don't thin that is reason enough to forego quality in your site builds - but thats just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrg_alpha Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Can you guys just feel the love in this room? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonMariner Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haku Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 fair enough. but I don't thin that is reason enough to forego quality in your site builds - but thats just me. swfobject IS quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonMariner Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 OK haku - lets call it a day... You think swfobject is right tool for the job - I think it isn't for the reasons given. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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