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I don't know if it is worth the hassle!

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I GIVE UP!!!!!

Effin' IE garbage!!! Someone should make MS pay for all the wasted hours and effort to web coders trying for trying to get their piece of junk browser to work with clean code and standards instead of mangled quirks mode garbage!!!

I just checked my stats. I'm depressed. I am wasting my time trying to fight the various IE version hordes. I feel like just buying FrontPage to auto-write the junk code that will make the crowd happy (which is most likely why all our competitors - BILLION DOLLAR R.E. COMPANIES! - all use quirks mode). Why, I would be able to punch web pages out like nobody's business ... and without worrying about why that one stupid line was not validating, too!

78% of my large NYC Real Estate website's 23,000 "visits" (16,350) used a version of IE (Idiot Enhanced) -
with way too many of them using from 4.01 through 5.5 ... yes ... I said 4.01!:

4.01 (7 visits - I would like to find that guy and smack him on the back of the head!);
5.0 visits (18 - another cluesless bozo);
5.01 (19 visits - I give them credit for coming back on the site through 18 & 19 visits);
5.14 (6 - ditto clueless maROON);
5.16 (8 - and yet another);
5.22 (????!! Wha?);
5.23 (I know that was our snobby, as well as cluesless, Art Director who claims how a Mac is the be all and end all for graphics, yet hasn't upgraded his OS X since 2003 and actually uses the garbage IE 5.23 instead of the clean, web standards Safari ... take off the bell-bottoms and platform shoes buddy! It's the 21st Century ... the Mac myth is tired);
5.5 (@ 300 - and I need to pay attention to those binks!)
6.0 (@15,000 - at least SOME people out there are starting to actually "get it");
7.0 (@ 250 brave souls who still think MS makes a browser they actually want!)

Meanwhile, I've been attempting to make my clean, css tableless layouts, with IE hacks through 5.0x. But the hacks are not cutting it when using Flexible, floating % columns. IE 5.2x for mac just does whatever it wants to my layout and no hack makes it behave. 5.2x for Win blows up less, but takes advanced calculous to get the layout just right in all IE browsers.

IE 6.0 at least can be forced to behave using MS's stupid conditional comments.

12% of the visits (@ 2,500) used a version of Firefox (I should have a pop-up that offers people 20% off our commission fee for using a proper browser ... the company would save money).

8% used Safari (@1,800) good browser. Along with Garage Band one of the few things I can stomach about a Mac.

All the other major browsers were covered but under 1% ... including one brave soul who used his HPIpaq hand held ... I wonder what that experience was on Windows Mobile??!!!

Oh, yeah! That's another thing! AGGGGHHHH!!!! 89% used a screen resolution from 1024 x 768 to 1680 x 1050 - okay, cool. That's how it should be. BUT!!!! A whopping 11% actually used 800 x 600 (that's over 2,250 visits! I can't ignore that!)

I can't take it anymore. Why? Why did I decide a few years ago to become a true professional and perfect my craft, to use css only and code with validated standards?

I was happy when I didn't use DOCTYPES.
I didn't care if people using Mozilla weren't seeing my javascript.
I wallowed in my ignorance and thought myself Joe web guy!

Those of you out there who are now being offered the choice of the red pill or the blue pill ... for the LOVE OF GOD ... CHOOSE THE BLUE PILL!  YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW THE TRUTH!

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I agree with every part of your argument...except the Blue Pill...let's all take the Red Pill, know the truth...and do to IE users what has been done to people using 'Politically Correct' browsers...you know what I'm talking about..."Your browser is not supported. Please close this window and use Internet Explorer to access our website. Here is a link." Let's do that to them! (For the people who can survive without sales to IE users...To those of you who rely on people using IE for gaining clients...I'm sorry)

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If you dont use css all your problams will go away.

unless you use the w3school manual and start agin.

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[quote author=redarrow link=topic=109468.msg441418#msg441418 date=1159233702]
If you dont use css all your problams will go away.

unless you use the w3school manual and start agin.

redarrow, I can only assume that you are not being facetious and are actually empathizing with me (you can never tell in a forum). Considering that your site is in quirks mode and has over 140 validation errors.

AND, like you, I have a MAJOR overhaul of a huge, poorly designed website (some pages are all graphics and no text) ... unfortunately, I have to admit that I coded the site 4 years ago - before "learning" CSS and standards. The biggest bitch is going into my major 1500 lines + php pages and rewriting all the echoed font and table tags.

I suppose I will have to use tables again for those pages that are giving me particular trouble in IE 5.x. I've actually been able to use standards and validate most of the old table based layouts. I just wanted to convert them to clean tableless, tag only code - using all external jscript and css files, and use strict doctypes instead of transitional.

I will work on my side jobs and personal web sie projects using clean standards coding. But to convert my existing hundreds of static pages site to look similar in css layout as it does in tables is a lost cause.

I have to get them to agree to a new site wide design overhaul ... and I work in a corporate environment with dept heads! So, yeah, sure, that's gonna happen.

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