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the_oliver

.asp vs .php

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Yahoo and YouTube have more than proven that PHP is a competent language enough. It's not like they're short of a few bob to invest in ASP/JSP/etc if they wanted...

The whole ASP/PHP argument doesnt wash with me. It normally always ends up in a Noobs vs Experts, Quality vs Price argument. My personal view: PHP/JSP/CF/ASP, etc are all FAR more powerful than their output (ie, HTML which is a fairly simple set of tags comparitively) - so which is more powerful can be considered a fairly floored argument, as there's not really anything one language can do that another cant. It all boils down to taste.

Personally, I find many hardcore ASP/ASP.net coders quite snooty about PHP - you only have to look many of the responses you see aimed at ASP newbs and that's not the sort of help/community I want to be part of. Generalising? Maybe. But that's my opinion.

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[quote author=redbullmarky link=topic=123286.msg515376#msg515376 date=1169990115]
Yahoo and YouTube have more than proven that PHP is a competent language enough. It's not like they're short of a few bob to invest in ASP/JSP/etc if they wanted...

The whole ASP/PHP argument doesnt wash with me. It normally always ends up in a Noobs vs Experts, Quality vs Price argument. My personal view: PHP/JSP/CF/ASP, etc are all FAR more powerful than their output (ie, HTML which is a fairly simple set of tags comparitively) - so which is more powerful can be considered a fairly floored argument, as there's not really anything one language can do that another cant. It all boils down to taste.

Personally, I find many hardcore ASP/ASP.net coders quite snooty about PHP - you only have to look many of the responses you see aimed at ASP newbs and that's not the sort of help/community I want to be part of. Generalising? Maybe. But that's my opinion.
[/quote]

I think what you described is to do with programmers in general not programmers of a specific language. Have you been to ##php on freenode?? the people there are so anal and a bunch of wankers. I have been told before that the guys on ##php are nothing compared to the people in the cpp channels.. somehow i think they may just have a point.

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[quote author=Nameless12 link=topic=123286.msg515995#msg515995 date=1170071717]
I think what you described is to do with programmers in general not programmers of a specific language. Have you been to ##php on freenode?? the people there are so anal and a bunch of wankers. I have been told before that the guys on ##php are nothing compared to the people in the cpp channels.. somehow i think they may just have a point.
[/quote]

You may be right on, there, but as far as this discussion goes, it's not really relevant. If you're comparing the actual languages, I think redbullmarky has a great point. The languages themselves are very comparable, but as with anything, the level and competence of the coder will shine through in the application. I think the post citing Yahoo and You-Tube as good PHP examples simply server to prove that PHP can hold its own in this discussion. I totally agree with what you're saying about some groups of programmers seeming to frown upon PHP as a "n00b" language, but I really believe that mindset is rapidly changing. Since the learning curve is so much more attainable in PHP, I believe it will always have its growing group of fly-by-night coders that tend to give the PHP community as a whole a bad name; however, if you look past that, I think that the language discussion will show that it is really of the same caliber as many of the other [b]scripting[/b] languages out there. I do not believe that it can be compared to compiled languages, though. It just lacks the power.

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you say "this is as far as the dicussion goes", but to me it ended a long time ago. I would not be saying this if not for your last post, but a good application does not mean the language it was made in is good. And I am not saying this to say php sucks, just because I think your argument is kind of empty.

The quality of complete applications and the quality of a language are two completely different subjects

You read what i said wrong. when I said the php guys are nothing compared to the guys in #cpp I was talking about the fact they are wankers not in terms of skill

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[quote author=Nameless12 link=topic=123286.msg516113#msg516113 date=1170082424]
you say "this is as far as the dicussion goes", but to me it ended a long time ago.
[/quote]
You need to read a bit more carefully before you get all fired up about something. I [b]never[/b] said what you've quoted above. What I said was that the comments about coders themselves was not relevant as far as this discussion goes. There's a [b]huge[/b] difference. It takes a lot to get me going, but being misrepresented will do it pretty quickly.

[quote author=Nameless12 link=topic=123286.msg516113#msg516113 date=1170082424]
I would not be saying this if not for your last post, but a good application does not mean the language it was made in is good. And I am not saying this to say php sucks, just because I think your argument is kind of empty.

The quality of complete applications and the quality of a language are two completely different subjects

[/quote]
My last post was actually agreeing with your previous comment. I fail to see why that deserves the sort of tirade you just presented. As far as empty comments go, however, your comment about "a good application does not mean the language it was made in is good" is very limiting. When you choose a language in which to write an application, you should do so based on what you're wanting to accomplish as much as on the basis of simply what you know. Each language has strengths and weaknesses for all sorts of application areas, but your application is indeed limited by the scope of the language in which it is written (obviously). Therefore, if there is an application that is good, the language behind it has to have a good level of support as well, or else the application could never have been written.

That being said, I think we agree that quality of programming is [b]completely[/b] different than quality of language, and therefore, we cannot judge a language (be it good or bad) based simply on applications we have been exposed to. At the same time, however, a programmer is also limited by the capabilities of the language he chooses, so his [i]choice[/i] of language for a specific application may also reflect on his level of programming competence.

[quote author=Nameless12 link=topic=123286.msg516113#msg516113 date=1170082424]
You read what i said wrong. when I said the php guys are nothing compared to the guys in #cpp I was talking about the fact they are wankers not in terms of skill
[/quote]
Actually, I read exactly what you said, and I was trying to show that one example of a programming community (#cpp vs. #php) is not enough to judge the core of programmers in that language on: whether in terms of personality [b]or[/b] skill. Please don't take this the wrong way, but you really ought to spend more time reading what's been said rather than reading veiled attacks into the comments. I for one try to say exactly what I mean on these boards, and I am in no way going to try to attack an individual (or their posts).

I hope this clears up my previous comments. I'm not trying to get on a tirade, but I definitely don't want to be misrepresented in where I stand on things either. ;)

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