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AV1611

Cleaning Site

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I was asked by a friend to come up with a website for him which I thought would be easy till he sent the business card and a post card he wanted the site based on.... Please keep the cards in mind when you tell me if I could do better or not...

[a href=\"http://gs13.inmotionhosting.com/~blmser5/abbott/acard.gif\" target=\"_blank\"]The Business card [/a]
[a href=\"http://gs13.inmotionhosting.com/~blmser5/abbott/apcard.gif\" target=\"_blank\"]The Post card [/a]
[a href=\"http://gs13.inmotionhosting.com/~blmser5/abbott/\" target=\"_blank\"]The site [/a]

Most of the text I took from stuff he sent...

Also, Contact will go to a form instead of mailto soon

Trina (av1611's daughter)

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The card has more on it then the site. Are you kidding me? Great job, best I've seen in a while.

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It looks like all you did was cut up the business card and change the font for "Your Office is Our Business". I am not exactly what you are expecting, "Good job cutting and pasting?" It is not a complex project from what you have shown thus far, just browse the web for related sites for inspiration and then start with a blank image and get creative. You can do it. If you have anymore questions or need some unbiased critique, I am happy to help.

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Viewed with Firefox - all that's visible is an uninspired rounded edge image, a large A, and "Your Office is our Business" in wonderful TNR. Curious that there's nothing else visible when the source code shows much more. Best guess is that your CSS is no good (and why not use it all the way through by getting rid of the font face=verdana??).

Do yourself a favour and remove the MsoNormal stuff - Word is [b]not[/b] a web design tool.

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Wow, I didn't even view the source. The page output was so uninspired I didn't bother with the source. That's just grotesque. Embeded stylesheets and non-standard compliant elements do not a webpage make. Seek a webdesigner to do the site for you or spend some time at [a href=\"http://www.w3schools.com\" target=\"_blank\"]W3Schools[/a], but don't continue to use a non-standard compliant editor to try to design the page. It will not be multi-browser friendly and as such will be a failure.

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I didn't have a chance to look at the firefox version... Wow, should have looked before posting...

As for the design, the person I'm doing this for already has the business cards and the flyer... he wanted it to match...

I'm not really sure what to do for him, and still keep it simular to his business card...

As for the Firefox layout... I'll get on that right away...

I know it's boring...

Suggestions????????????

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Ok, I went through and took out all the front page code (I was trying to be lazy doing it) and put in a doc type and stuff and just kinda tried to clean up the code a bit. All the css I have learned and used is from w3school so I don't understand how it can be wrong or non-standard? Also they say right on their page "An internal style sheet should be used when a single document has a unique style. You define internal styles in the head section by using the <style> tag" So, if anyone has any idea why firefox isn't accepting my css that would be great.

Also, I had some great ideas for the look of the page but he said no, that he wanted it to look like the cards. So, If any one has any ideas on how to keep [u]that look [/u]but make it look good that would be helpful.

Trina

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You still have very non-standard xhtml. Your site does not display properly in FF. Time to go back and get rid of those <font></font> tags and the <br />. I never said your stylesheet was non-standard I simply stated the fact that an embeded stylesheet is a mistake. Unless each of your pages are going to be extremely different which is a design flaw, you should use a css file. This way you include one file on all pages. You have not removed the frontpage code <font></font> is a microsoft screw up and should never be used nor should any inline styles ever be used. You defeat the purpose of the external stylesheet. Now instead of editing one file and making adjustments to the look of an entire site you edit one file then go searching through each file to make adjustments to inline or embeded stylesheets to make your changes come out the way you wanted. You only serve to make things harder on yourself.

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I was bored so I recoded your layout so works in both IE and FF.

Now with the new recoded HTML and CSS IE doesnt like it! (only if your screen resolution/size is set to 1280 x 1024) I tends to move the yellow area underneath the A image for a reason which is unknown! There is no conflict bewtten the left div and the right div. Prehaps my percentages are out. However this issue should be able to be easily sorted by a CSS whiz.

Anyway here is your recoded site which I have temporarly put up:
[a href=\"http://homepage.ntlworld.com/cshepwood/abbottCleaning/Abbott%20Cleaning%20Service.htm\" target=\"_blank\"]CLICKY[/a]

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[!--quoteo(post=353862:date=Mar 11 2006, 02:31 AM:name=txmedic03)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(txmedic03 @ Mar 11 2006, 02:31 AM) [snapback]353862[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
You still have very non-standard xhtml. Your site does not display properly in FF. Time to go back and get rid of those <font></font> tags and the <br />. I never said your stylesheet was non-standard I simply stated the fact that an embeded stylesheet is a mistake. Unless each of your pages are going to be extremely different which is a design flaw, you should use a css file. This way you include one file on all pages. You have not removed the frontpage code <font></font> is a microsoft screw up and should never be used nor should any inline styles ever be used. You defeat the purpose of the external stylesheet. Now instead of editing one file and making adjustments to the look of an entire site you edit one file then go searching through each file to make adjustments to inline or embeded stylesheets to make your changes come out the way you wanted. You only serve to make things harder on yourself.
[/quote]


Ok, I understand all the logic behind internal/external style sheets and but if I want to make something harder on my self isn't that my prerogative? Plus, they were only there temporarily. I put them there for the first page because it was easier on me and was going to put them in an external sheet before I was done.

Also, why is <font> a microsoft screw up? And how am I suppost to apply font setting to some font without using it?

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the <font> tag isn't a MS screw up as some put it. But its to do with the people at W3C (the people that set standards on websites) and is in actualy fact depreciated (mean no one uses it no more as CSS can do that for you). You can apply font styles to any tag in CSS you dont have to use <font> to change how you text looks on a page.

Look my post above and view the CSS for your new page that I made for you.

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[!--quoteo(post=353925:date=Mar 11 2006, 10:17 AM:name=wildteen88)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(wildteen88 @ Mar 11 2006, 10:17 AM) [snapback]353925[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
I was bored so I recoded your layout so works in both IE and FF.

Now with the new recoded HTML and CSS IE doesnt like it! (only if your screen resolution/size is set to 1280 x 1024) I tends to move the yellow area underneath the A image for a reason which is unknown! There is no conflict bewtten the left div and the right div. Prehaps my percentages are out. However this issue should be able to be easily sorted by a CSS whiz.

Anyway here is your recoded site which I have temporarly put up:
[a href=\"http://homepage.ntlworld.com/cshepwood/abbottCleaning/Abbott%20Cleaning%20Service.htm\" target=\"_blank\"]CLICKY[/a]
[/quote]
wow, looks good in ff... IE messes it up a bit though
did you redo mine or start from scratch? I would like to just take what you did and call it good but I need to find out the reason WHY mine didnt work so I can fix future sites, not just have someone else do it.

Thanks though

(oh, and Aren't those the ugliest colors ever? lol)

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I did recode yours yes but not from the ground up.

Although I think I know why your site doesn't work in FF and its some thing to do with your z-index's! The [i]z-index: -1;[/i] for the div.main class si the problem.

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If you are going to ask for critique, don't complain when you get it. Yes, the use of the font tag is a microsoft screw up. The font tag is vastly depriciated, and yet, microsoft still insists on inline styles and font tags. I don't get paid for nothing, I do web development to make money. If I spend all my time playing with inline styles and superfluous use of depriciated tags then I couldn't make money. The bottom line is you asked for critique and you got it, now it is up to you to take all of it and decide which points you in a positive direction and follow it. You can learn from my mistakes and the mistakes that the rest of the members that have replied to this thread or you can go off and make the same mistakes for yourself. It really doesn't hurt my feelings if you don't care to listen.

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First, I am not complaining... I am questioning logic so I can learn... BIG DIFFERENCE!

That being said, let me ask you this question: I understand the deprecated <font> tags thing... but when WC3Schools.com TEACHES you to use inline styletags, now you are giving advice that is against WC3 rules... so I was hoping you would explain why W3C was wrong and you were right...

ALL in the name of LEARNING!

(BTW ... I'm not mad, just clarifying my question :-) )

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Please, excuse my misinterpretation. Now to answer your question, W3C teachs the use of inline styles because they are standard compliant not to say they are a good idea. The problem with inline styles is that you have to edit each page where it may appear to make adjustments to the style of the page. If you do everything with CSS files you can make changes to one file and affect the entire site. The point I am trying to make is that you create more headaches for yourself if you have a 50+ page site and all of your styles are embeded/inline and you realize that your pages don't show up right in the browsers you want it to or you don't like the layout anymore. There are all sorts of reasons why you might need to adjust the styles and it because a very time consuming task if you have to do it across multiple pages.

I separate my layouts into three files. header.php, footer.php and stylesheet.css and include header.php at the top of each page and footer.php at the bottom so I can make any other changes that need to carry over to all pages such as user tracking. header.php has the <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="/stylesheet.css" /> and all my style information is stored in the stylesheet.css file.

Time is money and the faster you can make adjustments to suit your customer the more money you can make. It also makes it easier on you.

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