Is this the real price of websites?

[s0c0]

Not sure that as an American I would trust someone from a third world country to design my site for me, especially at $200.  But I guess if I was on a really low budget and had some safe-guards in place I'd consider it.  Frankly, I rather give money to an American though.  I work it like this I have a set price I charge for side projects.  Generally I shoot for $30-$35 based on the project scope (if I had more experience and a larger portfolio I would charge more believe me).  If the client doesn't want to pay I tell them this:

 

Basically a programmer is like anything else you buy.  You get a cheap knife and it might work well, it might break, it might not last long. You buy an expensive knife, then you get a solid piece that will last a long time. So it's your decision, but anything below $30 isn't worth throwing my free time away since I have a full time job already.

[s0c0]

there are people who want "something that works" and people that want quality code, not the easy, quick way out.

 

if they are looking for quality, they won't go with a kid who doesn't know the value of what he/she is doing...

 

personally, i am charging around $250 for a 5 page site, but that's because i am working 40-50 hours at my job, and dont have time to get "proficient" at what i do...a basic site is all that i offer, and that's all that they get.

 

i dont do php coding for money, just to learn...so what i make ends up to be pretty good (html is an easy language and dreamweaver makes it even easier  )

 

I always thought this $200 or whatever for a 5 page site stuff was hilarious.  You know what I would do if I needed a website designed that was beyond my skills (and I'm talking just the design layout).  I would go to one of these people who charge like this and say hey I just need one page developed, so I'd get the 1 page for maybe $50 or $100.  Then I'd take that it use across like 10-15 pages or however many are on my site.

 

It just boggles my mind, your site keeps the same layout across the page.  So I mean WTF LOL?  Whenever I see these I just disregard these people as naive (no offense but its true) to how a site is designed.

[GameYin]

The PHP include function makes the whole design process so easy it makes me cry 

[Daniel0]

The PHP include function [...]

 

include() is not a function, but a language construct

[Stooney]

Not sure that as an American I would trust someone from a third world country to design my site for me, especially at $200.  But I guess if I was on a really low budget and had some safe-guards in place I'd consider it.  Frankly, I rather give money to an American though.  I work it like this I have a set price I charge for side projects.  Generally I shoot for $30-$35 based on the project scope (if I had more experience and a larger portfolio I would charge more believe me).  If the client doesn't want to pay I tell them this:

 

Basically a programmer is like anything else you buy.  You get a cheap knife and it might work well, it might break, it might not last long. You buy an expensive knife, then you get a solid piece that will last a long time. So it's your decision, but anything below $30 isn't worth throwing my free time away since I have a full time job already.

 

$30?  Are you kidding?  Most I would do for that is maybe install someone's printer drivers.  And I generally charge $40 for stuff like that (on-site).  I wouldn't do much coding for $30 though. 

[GameYin]

You know what I meant lol.

The PHP include function [...]

 

include() is not a function, but a language construct

[s0c0]

Not sure that as an American I would trust someone from a third world country to design my site for me, especially at $200.  But I guess if I was on a really low budget and had some safe-guards in place I'd consider it.  Frankly, I rather give money to an American though.  I work it like this I have a set price I charge for side projects.  Generally I shoot for $30-$35 based on the project scope (if I had more experience and a larger portfolio I would charge more believe me).  If the client doesn't want to pay I tell them this:

 

Basically a programmer is like anything else you buy.  You get a cheap knife and it might work well, it might break, it might not last long. You buy an expensive knife, then you get a solid piece that will last a long time. So it's your decision, but anything below $30 isn't worth throwing my free time away since I have a full time job already.

 

$30?  Are you kidding?  Most I would do for that is maybe install someone's printer drivers.  And I generally charge $40 for stuff like that (on-site).  I wouldn't do much coding for $30 though. 

 

Well you may have more than a year experience under you belt.  I also live in an area where cost of living is low (housing is literally half or less than half what it is in California, New York etc...) so $30 an hour is a good money.  For instance, I pay $600 a month for a decent sized 1 bedroom apt.  So take a 40 hour project at $30/hr and thats enough to pay my rent for the next 2 months Certainly as I gain more experience the price will rise.

[AndyB]

For instance, I pay $600 a month for a decent sized 1 bedroom apt.  So take a 40 hour project at $30/hr and thats enough to pay my rent for the next 2 months

 

Only if the IRS doesn't find out.

[Stooney]

For instance, I pay $600 a month for a decent sized 1 bedroom apt.  So take a 40 hour project at $30/hr and thats enough to pay my rent for the next 2 months

 

Only if the IRS doesn't find out.

 

So true.

[The Little Guy]

What do you think of my pricing?

http://portfolio.phpsnips.com/pricing.html

[unsider]

What do you think of my pricing?

http://portfolio.phpsnips.com/pricing.html

 

I'm assuming your probably pretty proficient in your work, so I'd say that's pretty close to accurate, I figure if you had a customer, you wouldn negotiate a little to suit all their needs.

 

Otherwise, good pricing. I think.

[tippy_102]

What do you think of my pricing?

http://portfolio.phpsnips.com/pricing.html

Sort of a different topic, but I feel that "PHP and MySQL Security" should be included in your work, not an extra charge. Isn't that akin to inviting the script kiddies to look at the sites you created to see who didn't want to pay out the extra $20.00+ ?

[trq]

Also, I fail to see the point in having a seperate price for simple and advanced(whatever that meens) php pages. For one, your clients won't know the difference, second, if a script is more complicated its just going to take you longer, its not like you work harder.

 

You seem to describe php development as 'a simple php page', this is just an unrealistic description.

 

You also want to charge $30 per .htaccess file while your description leads me to believe you don't really undertstand what a .htaccess file actually is.

 

Besides all that, and I really wasn't and still probably shouldn't mention this but, I've seen you around these forums, I've read and even answered questions you've asked. Honestly, I could not bring myself to pay someone of your experience $75/hour. Its just not good value for money.

[Stooney]

What do you think of my pricing?

http://portfolio.phpsnips.com/pricing.html

 

I'm assuming your probably pretty proficient in your work, so I'd say that's pretty close to accurate, I figure if you had a customer, you wouldn negotiate a little to suit all their needs.

 

Otherwise, good pricing. I think.

 

I don't think tables should cost extra in the database.  That's dependent on how you write the scripts, the client has no control over it.  I would say charge per database only, and that's assuming you're providing the hosting.

[unsider]

What do you think of my pricing?

http://portfolio.phpsnips.com/pricing.html

 

I'm assuming your probably pretty proficient in your work, so I'd say that's pretty close to accurate, I figure if you had a customer, you wouldn negotiate a little to suit all their needs.

 

Otherwise, good pricing. I think.

 

I don't think tables should cost extra in the database.  That's dependent on how you write the scripts, the client has no control over it.   I would say charge per database only, and that's assuming you're providing the hosting.

 

Hmm, now that I think about it. That's true, the tables are based on the the creator. Maybe cut it down to $1 or something. $5 can rack up pretty quickly depending on the project.

[Daniel0]

.htaccess is not a file name it is an extention for webservers to add ways a server works. One of the many things a .htaccess can do is remove the .html' date=' or .php in the address bar. $30.00/.htaccess file[/quote']

 

Uh... yes, it is a filename and why would you charge $30 for it? I also second tippy_102's, chrisdburns's and thorpe's comments.

[The Little Guy]

They are base prices.

 

You also have other choices to choose from (about same price as mine):

 

how about we go with this guy: http://www.sws-wis.com/index.htm

Or this guy: http://www.websitesrcg.com/pricing.htm

Or this one: http://www.designbylinda.com/index.htm

 

So... that means I should charge you for the price of security, even though your site doesn't need it.

 

Simple php, would be things such as including files, but not something that would function like a forum, or ecommerce site.

 

I also can charge up the ass due to the fact of where I live, and how little of the that people know PHP/web. I don't have time to work for someone on freelance, so I can charge more there too (higher price less customers).

 

You could make an entire website off one table, It would be very redundant, but it can be done. Are you willing to pay more for a clean database or less for non-clean one? Who cares if the client doesn't have any control, they have a choice. (I did notice that my price of $50.00 may be a little steep so we will go off of $30.00)

So, if I wanted a gaming site, you will make me a database that will hold:

- reviews

- subscribers

- users

- picture information

- user profile information

- user preferences

- administrative information

- administrative preferences

 

I also want my very own unique forum, I don't want one of those free forums like this or PHPBoards I would like my own, one that integrates with my users so they don't have to register for the site and the forum and have two logins and passwords. This database will be on its own server, so we will need another database.

 

with some tables:

- for user forum preferences

- forum prefrences

- ban list

- ban words

- collapsed/expanded categories

- online/offline

- polls

- board names

- category names

 

You are willing to do this all for the same price as one database and table? How kind of you! Will you build me one of these for $30.00? If you have ever installed a SMF message board, you will know that there are 41 tables in one database. and you would make one of those from scratch off of $30.00?

 

 

I am all for attacking sites (Not destroying them) why wouldn't you want security?  An airport, mall or any place that has security doesn't just expect that security will be included when they buy the place. They need to spend the extra money to get security for their mall, airport, or whatever. Are you saying you are going to make a Security image, for all your forms for your clients, or do 100's of different security hacks on all of your forms to find ways around your form or hack through the address bar for a low price or included in your $25.00 base price, and not charge any extra?

OK, if you charge $200 for 5 pages, and since Security is included, I am going to expect "Google Security" and nothing less... but I am not going to pay an extra fee, since it is included in the price of your $200 for a 5 page website.

 

Besides all that, and I really wasn't and still probably shouldn't mention this but, I've seen you around these forums, I've read and even answered questions you've asked. Honestly, I could not bring myself to pay someone of your experience $75/hour. Its just not good value for money.

Are you saying that I am a shitty programmer because I have some questions? Doesn't everyone have questions? How many years have you been programming in PHP/MySQL/JavaScript? Me 2 years, so does that mean I should know everything about PHP? Is that what your saying?

 

my very first question on these forms:

I downloaded CURL, But I can not figure out how to install it. Anyone have any Ideas how to do this?

 

I am not trying to be rude in any of this, if it sounds rude, It wasn't meant to be.

[revraz]

You need to remember, you asked what people thought of your pricing.. 

[Stooney]

From what I gathered your saying it takes extra to code cleanly.  This is referring to your comment about using 1 table, or using more for cleanliness.  It is actually easier on the coder to do things clean and correctly than to jam it all up in one spot.  Why would you charge extra for a 'clean design'.  It's like Burger King selling a sloppy whopper for $2 or a 'clean' and well made whopper for $3.  It should just be the standard. 

 

And for security, it doesn't take all the much extra work if you consider it as you write the code.  It could take some time if you code something without security then go back and try to add it, but that's like building a house start to finish THEN having electricians start wiring it; it makes no sense. 

[Daniel0]

If I buy something then I'll expect it to work properly, not be a piece of shit and be secure. I don't want to pay extra for those things. Who would want to purchase an insecure website?

[OriginalBoy]

it's stupid there just accepting some bad quality site for a cheap price

[dbo]

I read through several of these posts but don't claim to have followed everything. I'd like to point out a few observations both on the thread as well as in real life.

 

-Outsourcing development isn't as effective as some people would like to think, especially on large projects. Many times it can be done for 1/3 of the local rate, but takes 3 iterations to get it right. The end result is the same price, or more, and a delayed project. There are just still too many language barriers that exist.

 

-Effective communication is not a skill most teenagers possess. There is a big difference between two adults interaction, more specifically two professionals. Most teenagers are not able to understand the deeper needs that are involved. At the end of the day building a professional website for someone is about dissecting their business needs and being able to deliver a website that matches these needs. A poorly developed website, will reflect poorly on the business and can do more harm than good.

 

-Most teenagers do not have the experience they need. This is life experience, professional experience, and coding experience. Without being well read and educated you cannot develop something that adheres to standards and best practices. There is a big difference between something that works and something that is done correctly. If you have to scrap the code and start fresh, the total cost of ownership is going to increase.

 

-Most of the time I see fixed bids on websites it's rookies doing the bidding. Anyone who has been in the game for any length of time knows that fixed bids are dangerous. It's very seldom that you have enough information up front (defined requirements) to know exactly what you're bidding on. The end result is either an unhappy client who doesn't get what they want, or pays more than they expected... or a developer who took a total beating because they had 3x the work they thought they were doing. Gotta learn that SDLC

 

I could rant about several more considerations, but these are some that initially came to mind. Ultimately the answer is -NO- this is not the rates for websites. If this is what you're competing against, you're arguably not looking in the right places for work. In todays environment its much more about networking and relationships.

 

 

[ardyandkari]

there are people who want "something that works" and people that want quality code, not the easy, quick way out.

 

if they are looking for quality, they won't go with a kid who doesn't know the value of what he/she is doing...

 

personally, i am charging around $250 for a 5 page site, but that's because i am working 40-50 hours at my job, and dont have time to get "proficient" at what i do...a basic site is all that i offer, and that's all that they get.

 

i dont do php coding for money, just to learn...so what i make ends up to be pretty good (html is an easy language and dreamweaver makes it even easier  )

 

I always thought this $200 or whatever for a 5 page site stuff was hilarious.  You know what I would do if I needed a website designed that was beyond my skills (and I'm talking just the design layout).  I would go to one of these people who charge like this and say hey I just need one page developed, so I'd get the 1 page for maybe $50 or $100.  Then I'd take that it use across like 10-15 pages or however many are on my site.

 

It just boggles my mind, your site keeps the same layout across the page.  So I mean WTF LOL?  Whenever I see these I just disregard these people as naive (no offense but its true) to how a site is designed.

 

not naive...i wont sell you one page unless you are going to pay the $200...i'm not stupid.

 

if you want one page, $200.  If you want 5 pages $200... the question is, how much do you want to type, copy, paste, etc???

 

also, the majority of people out there don't know how to build a page, so it is worth it to them to get a whole page and not have do deal with anything to do with the web other than tell you what they like/dislike and what to change.  (i am talking about small businesses...if you get into the corporate thing, then they might have someone there who knows something, but i dont care...i am small time and i like it. )