ASP Vs PHP

[Dysan]

Hi,

 

What's the difference between ASP and PHP? - What's best?

[moon 111]

Seeing as this is a PHP forum the answers are going to be very obvious. PHP.

[dazz_club]

does mircosoft still support asp?

 

difference hmm, php is opensource  and a stand against sucking the teets of microsoft and asp/asp.net is a supported serverside language.

 

I enjoy php, ive worked in .net environment but somehow i enjoy php that much more.

[coldkill]

ASP runs off Access and MSSQL(?) databases. Access is a particularly slow system for web servers and isn't normally used from what I've seen.

 

You have to pay for ASP whereas PHP is available freely (indeed you can download the source and engine for PHP for free and run it locally).

 

There are huge differences between ASP and PHP, primarily the cost and speed is what gives PHP the edge over ASP.

 

Although this is stuff I had to find out a very long time ago and it may well have changed, I would still suggest PHP over ASP.

[GingerRobot]

Indeed. You're going to get a very biased opinion here.

[Cep]

ASP is the outdated and no longer supported "active server pages" scripting language by Microsoft, it is an ugly language compared to PHP. ASP.NET is NOT the same as ASP it is the next generation is a lot better then its predecessor.

 

I prefer PHP myself but ASP.NET is not bad.

[trq]

ASP is the outdated and no longer supported "active server pages" scripting language by Microsoft, it is an ugly language compared to PHP. ASP.NET

 

ASP is not a language, but a framework. You can develope asp in many different languages including vbscript (default and most common), jscript, python, and perl.

[Cep]

Yes, thorpe is right its not a language, its more of an environment/framework

[roopurt18]

They are both good and can be used for the same purpose.  This is like asking, "Which is better for pulling a small trailer, a truck or a hummer?"

 

ASP / ASP.NET / whatever are Microsoft technologies.  This means if you use them you pay for them.  It also means there are standardized methods for accomplishing goals.  The idea is that a programmer can move from one project to another because they're all using the same standard technology.  This is also why .NET programmers tend to, on average, earn more money.  .NET also has advantages for the business types in that they know a company supports it if they have problems (although the support is not really any better than having a smart developer on your team in the first place).

 

PHP is free and not backed by any one company.  This means it doesn't have the same assurances for the business folk.  It also means there isn't a single standard method for building sites or using the language.  If you pick up a PHP project maintained by another programmer it might be custom or it might use one of a dozen frameworks.  You will likely hit a learning curve.  Like I said it's free, but it can be harder to find the answers you are looking for in certain situations.

 

In the end they are the same - tools that can accomplish the same tasks.

[zq29]

...The idea is that a programmer can move from one project to another because they're all using the same standard technology...

 

...If you pick up a PHP project maintained by another programmer it might be custom or it might use one of a dozen frameworks.  You will likely hit a learning curve...

 

Could you elaborate on this please roopert? I would have thought the latter would be true of any system designed by one individual/team regardless of language. Although ASP(.NET)? is a framework, and likely has set methods for achieving a task - There must still be x ways of applying that method?

[roopurt18]

Sure, but mind you I'm speaking out my butt here.

 

When it comes to Win32 programming most of it is performed in MS IDEs; in fact you'd be crazy not to, their IDEs are so good.  Anyways, all windows applications (or 99% of them) are just subclasses of the existing windows framework.  Program initialization, execution, event handling, display, etc. are all the same.  Also, the UIs are all designed and manipulated the same way.  It is all very, very standard because they've been developing these tools for decades and always applying previous experience to make it better. 

 

The only structure or framework inherent in programming PHP applications is that imposed by the language.  If I toss 3 different PHP applications your way you have no idea how any of them are structured.  The one written by a novice is going to be a mess and a headache.  The one written by an intermediate guy might use a framework; but if he's using one like Zend which is modular, you have no idea how he has used it (which pieces, what did he customize, etc.), and the one written by the guy doing it for 10 years could be entirely custom but very organized.  In any case, you won't know until you look at it.

 

Going back to the windows world, most of the applications will follow the same structure no matter who writes them.  Sure the larger apps and the apps written by more experienced guys are going to be even more organized.  But they still all rely on the same fundamental groundwork which is more than just that imposed by the language (c++, vb, c#).  Remember MS does more than just supply compilers and IDEs, they create the necessary libraries for interacting with their operating system.  If you know how to use MS tools, then you really do know what rapid application development is.

 

Now I'm not saying this doesn't exist to some degree in the php (or open source) world.  It does, it's just not as wide spread.  There's more methodologies, frameworks, libraries, etc. that are available.

 

Here's another way to look at it.  People are really excited about Ruby on Rails and Zend Framework, which are relatively new (the past two years maybe?).  Either of them is probably as sophisticated as Microsoft's development frameworks were a decade ago.

 

A lot of windows programmers also take Microsoft certifications or training provided by Microsoft, which means that they're all trained to develop the same way.  You don't have nearly as much of that in the open source world.

 

The biggest problem I see with MS products is they become bloated.  There's really not much they can do about this because they support business; they can't just willy-nilly decide to stop supporting something of theirs because their customers still rely on it.

 

Going slightly off topic, linux and mac users like to take digs at windows and how bloated or inefficient it is.  Believe me, if linux and mac every occupy significant market share for non-technical users those OSes will likely become just as bad in some respects.  I use linux at home and like it a lot, but it's not without its flaws.

 

Again, this is all opinion.

[zq29]

Great response - I have zero experience in programming for Windows, so was unaware of the process/technique. Thanks for the explanation. For the uninitiated, that's a difficult concept for developing for the web! (In my eyes, anyway).

[Acs]

I have started using asp at work and have to use vbscript because that is what most of the applications they have is written on, and let me tell you that it sucks!! If you don't know something it's complicated to find good examples. With php I just googled something  or went straight to the php manual and it was done.

Also to connect to a database is so complicated, so many steps and so much stuff that I fell is not needed. At least from a php point a view where everything is a lot simpler

 

Stay away from asp vbscript!!

[quiettech]

Stay away from asp vbscript!!

 

Let us not get into this type of debate. VBScript is not half of what you made it. It would be strange if it was, since many companies spent thousands of dollars requiring my services and that of the company I worked for well over 10 years. You'd think you know better than them?

 

As with any new technology we are getting our hands on, things aren't always easy at first. Information flooding is one of the problems as we are constantly in need of figuring out how to do something. Another problem is the environment semantics and culture that is alien to us and affects our ability to quickly find the relevant information.

 

And yet, as we progress in our apprenticeship, things start to fall into place. The logic behind the language, it surrounding, the semantics, the culture all start to make more sense. This is true of anything. And it's exactly how I am experiencing my own PHP learning process. I could as easily bash on PHP during my initial weeks. It was a hard step for me, with my 10 year background of ASP/VBScript. Can you start to imagine the problems I had to face? The whole PHP world is much more complex than the rather centric ASP world; apache, zend platform, multi php versions, conf and ini files, xampp, lamp, pear, pecl,...

 

In the end what counts is not your preference, but your ability in handling more than one tool to solve a problem. So, in a direct rebut to the quote above I say get into vbscript! Just like I got into PHP. Get into both. And if you want, as soon as you feel comfortable also study ColdFusion and JSP, for instance. Enrich yourself and let your religion dictate instead whom you vote or what football team you support. Your resume will thank you. And your dinner plate will look much nicer at the end of the month.

[KevinM1]

From what I understand ASP != ASP.NET.  The former did have its own syntax, and seemed somewhat similar to PHP on the surface.  I'm not sure if other languages (read: vbscript) could write the old form of ASP.

 

ASP.NET is a framework.  It is used by other languages (VB.NET, C#) to do dynamic web application things.

 

From what I've read/heard from some contacts around me, learning C# may actually be the way to go if you want to learn ASP.NET.  It seems to be Microsoft's darling, so it should be well supported in the future.

 

I intend to learn ASP.NET as soon as possible, as PHP jobs are few and far between in my area.

[roopurt18]

If SA or anyone else wants to get a taste of the MS way of doing things:

 

MS Visual C# 2008 Express edition can be downloaded and used for free:

http://www.microsoft.com/express/vcsharp/

 

C# Tutorials and introductions (I'd start under the section General Tutorials):

http://www.functionx.com/vcsharp/index.htm

 

It's worth looking at if you have a spare weekend or two.  I know that we're all busy and often times don't look at things beyond our immediate horizon, but I often times draw on concepts from completely unrelated fields (such as game programming) in accomplishing tasks in web programming.  I.E. the more exposure you have to different fields the more tools you can carry in your toolbox, rather than just a hammer.

[zq29]

Thanks for the links, will have a read when I get some time, might even persuade me to blow the dust off my XP box and give it a crack! It will have to be after I have fully grasped the benefits of OOP though, obviously!

[trq]

ASP and ASP.NET are both web frameworks, nothing at all to do with windows programming, more IIS programming. The classic asp wouldn't really be considered a framework either but more of a way for certain (active) scripting languages to hook into IIS. One (asp) can be implimented by active scripting languages (vbscript,jscript,python and perl) the other (asp.net) is implimented using either C# or VB.NET (both of which can also be used for windows programming).

 

To iterate over what quiettech said. I too started web programming in asp (vbscript) and did so quite successfully for many years before moving to php. One thing I can say about vbscript is that you need to do alot of things yourself. The language itself only has around 120 functions built in, the rest of its functionality comes from either MS provided dlls (including the windows api) which are not often installed by default or on remote hosting or by third party providers. This basically meens you learn to do alot yourself.

 

I loved it when I was using it, and it took me a long while to switch to something like php (I used python for a little while prior to php) because I hated the way everything was handed to you on a platter.

 

Of course, thinking about this now I know it sounds stupid. Why program in a language where even the most simple tasks meens alot of code?

 

Well, at the time, it was a good learning experience.

[roopurt18]

The only thing VB really has against it IMO is that it is unnecessarily verbose.

[trq]

Yeah, its pretty much the same with vbscript.

 

BTW (OT): *nix also uses a well defined and standardized API called the POSIX standards. While this really only defines the lower levels of the OS (not the gui) it is what makes Linux in particular portable accross many different platforms.

[jordanwb]

I used ASP.Net in co-op at high school for about 5 months. Made me appreciate PHP's better control of output. ASP.Net outputted all this garbage that made the page fail even HTML 4.0 Specs.

[Acs]

Yeah that's the problem with MS stuff! I remember when I created a page with frontpage, there was soooo much garbage in the page! I know it doesn't have anything to do with asp, but I just remembered this

[ardyandkari]

in general, what you guys are saying is:

 

the business world is a lot like the caveman world...

 

if you have a club (php), then you are looking good.  but you can survive better with a club and a knife (asp).  and if you get a club, knife and a spear (cold fusion) then you are sitting pretty.  if you can master multiple languages you have a better chance at getting a job and keeping it.

 

is that right?

[Acs]

It seems to make sense to me! But I never messed with coldfusion so I don't know about the spear part