Submiting posts/losing form data/edit timelimits

[ChemicalBliss]

This is so annoying that tbh, I won't be posting near as much as i could until soemthing is done as it really ticks me off when you spent 20 minutes+ on a reply and POOF it's gone.

 

Problems:

1. When creating a post/reply/topic w/e, if you press tab, and then press enter, you will submit the post. This is very common for me when coding to try a tab and then enter for a newline. unfortunately it means i post an incomplete and confusing post.

 

2. When editing the post/creating the post/topic, if you submit and for some reason it wont let you (either the really short time limit for editing or some other permissions error), you cannot go back to retrieve your post. It's gone.

 

3. Really short editing time is pointless unless you spot your mistake within 5 minutes.

 

These are really annoying problems and if it happens to people they may leave and never come back - over being that frustrated that they lost 20min-1 hour writing a reply that just vanished.

 

Solution:

1. create a fake tab button, add a form element so that a tab wil take you other than the submit button, or prevent the submit button from being "focused" via a tab.

 

2. Hack smf so that the form data is either retrievable via a link (very..very..very simple), or is still thjere on the previous page (quite difficult).

 

3. Up the editing time.

 

Thanks for reading. (this is a little bit of a rant but my points are valid).

[.josh]

 

1. tab + enter

Out of all the years I've been here, this is literally the first time I've seen this "tab+entering" come up.  That makes you the vast minority and my opinion is that phpfreaks should not cater to individual user preferences.  It's nothing personal...

 

But even still, it were something worth changing, phpfreaks generally avoids hacking the forum software, as it creates a dependency on keeping up with the hack as new versions of the forum software is released.  The better thing would be for you to go to the SMF community and voice your complaint there and see if they will change it in the core code.

 

2. "Lost" Post after posting.

Yes, this is definitely annoying, I agree. If you are in the middle of posting and your login session times out, or if the thread gets moved, or if the edit window times out, you are kind of SoL a lot of times.  Sometimes I can press the back button and retrieve it, sometimes I can't. I haven't really looked into why the inconsistency etc.. but I have gotten in the habit of habitually c/ping my post in a text editor before clicking any post/preview buttons if it's a longer post (like this one!).  I do feel your pain on this count, as I often write tl;dr posts.  However, as with #1, we generally avoid hacking the software, so you should really go to SMF community and appeal to them for a change to the core.

 

3. Short edit time

You aren't the first person to bitch about this.  I too find this annoying at times, especially since I am no longer staff and therefore this time limit applies to me, but overall IMO the decision for the time limit is sound.  Feel free to search this forum for the many related posts, but the gist of it is that we have found 2 things happening with extended/unlimited post-editing times:

 

a) Lots of users would post questions and then later delete them because they didn't want a paper trail of their noobness, be it for personal or professional reasons.  To this we say tough shit.  We are here to provide a learning resource.  Allowing content to be removed goes against the principle of being a resource.  If you do not like leaving a paper trail, then do not create one in the first place.  It's just like real life: Once something comes out your mouth, you can't just take it back.  We are not interested in covering up people's perceived misjudgments, noobness, etc...

 

b) For "legit" edits: example "I typoed a line of code posted and I want to go back and edit it to fix it".  We have found that there is a direct correlation between time of edit vs. original post, and confusion by other readers.  This is a fairly active site, so at any given time, there are plenty of people reading threads.  For people trying to follow along or help or be helped, it is better for them to read it as-is and you make an additional post with the correction, than to go back later and edit it.  Even as early as 5 minutes later causes a lot of confusion, due to the rate of activity.  Being more disciplined in proof-reading your stuff goes a long way in preventing the need to edit your post in the first place.

[ChemicalBliss]

I appreciate your response and i can see why phpfreaks doesn't hack the smf code. But they have hacked it, and they seem to keep up fine . This hack would be so simple (a simple javascript addition that would giev you an option to view the POST data in a new window for ex.) that i highly doubt any updates would break it.

 

Anyway, I'm certain SMF have bigger issues to contend with but nonetheless i will attempt to voice my concerns over there. Though imo it's quite unique to coding forums, so a small percentage of their community base.

 

Also, - My intention was never to bitch about anything

 

The edit time is extremely short, though, i would reccommend approx 20minutes - this would do the same as it is doing now by stopping people from removing irrelevant posts, but will allow someone a decent amouint of time to correct smoe cod they posted that doesn't work.

 

Also, my responses are quick usually and I don't feel you should have to "watch your back" with these forums (replying in a text-editor for ex.)

[.josh]

I appreciate your response and i can see why phpfreaks doesn't hack the smf code. But they have hacked it, and they seem to keep up fine . This hack would be so simple (a simple javascript addition that would giev you an option to view the POST data in a new window for ex.) that i highly doubt any updates would break it.

 

Yes, there have been exceptions. Most notably, the [ m ] .. [ /m ] tag.  And it's been a hassle for people to keep up with them, which is why we avoid it.  It's not really a matter of "Will this update break the hack?" but more-so the dependency to keep track of and apply the hack with each update.  My answer was based on how it has been in the past when I was on staff, and giving an explanation of how things have been done.  However, there are a bunch of (relatively) newer members of staff so maybe they are more willing to do this sort of thing.

 

 

Anyway, I'm certain SMF have bigger issues to contend with but nonetheless i will attempt to voice my concerns over there. Though imo it's quite unique to coding forums, so a small percentage of their community base.

 

Maybe...maybe not.  In the past, we have found SMF to be quite responsive in our efforts to make changes on things (now whether or not they agreed and did something is another story, but point is, they've always been pretty good about responding).  But you are right in that a "coding" forum is just one of many types of communities out there and they generally try to only keep the most ambiguous of features in the core.  This is why they also have an extensive forum mod community.  We are much less opposed to using mods, as it puts the responsibility on the owner of the mods to maintain compatibility and it's a lot easier to keep track of and (re)install/update mods.

 

Also, - My intention was never to bitch about anything

 

Bitch, rant, voice opinion...whatever.  I wasn't trying to make it sound negative, it's just my personal generic term to use

 

The edit time is extremely short, though, i would reccommend approx 20minutes - this would do the same as it is doing now by stopping people from removing irrelevant posts, but will allow someone a decent amouint of time to correct smoe cod they posted that doesn't work.

 

No not really...I have the advantage of having been on this staff and have seen over the years the complaints and confusion resulting in adjusting the time limits to various time limits (which we've done many times over the years).  5 minutes is a pretty good balance.  That's not to say that it's perfect.  No time limit will perfectly satisfy everybody.  But we have seen that it's pretty fair as far as "least of the evils" so to speak.  But again, this topic comes up a lot and is therefore reviewed a lot, so it can definitely change as the need arises.

 

Also, my responses are quick usually and I don't feel you should have to "watch your back" with these forums (replying in a text-editor for ex.)

 

Well that's your personal opinion.  My personal opinion is that you should always put some thought into what you say (or do).  That goes for life in general, not just posting on a forum.  IMO people who "act before they think" tend to make more mistakes and have more regrets.

[.josh]

I also want to point out that your responses/reasoning for making changes seem to be solely based on your personal preferences/opinions.  When you make decisions and changes that affect a vast number of people, it is better to consider majority opinion, rather than individual opinion.  It is the same principle you yourself have acknowledged for the unlikelihood of SMF making a change for a small community type.  It is nothing personal and it's not that we don't listen to individuals, it's just that you have to look at the bigger picture when decisions and changes affect a lot of people.

 

There are a ton of things I dislike about the forum software.  Things I'd like to see added.  Things I'd like to see removed.  And there are a ton of things about the way this place is run that I disagree with, which is more or less why I am no longer a part of the staff.  But that's another story.  Point is, I recognize that I'm just one person, and I respect and do not take it personally when the majority of others sway another way. 

 

I'm not saying that you are taking any of this personally..I'm just wanting to make sure you don't take anything I say personally.  And I don't think my opinions as an individual are any more or less valid than yours as an individual, either.  Unless specifically stated as "IMO" my responses have been based off my experience as an ex-staff member, having been there when it was discussed by many people, and know the resulting majority consensus opinions, which I am in turn sharing with you.

[ChemicalBliss]

No don't get me wrong I'm not offended in any way .

 

Though I disagree with only thinking about the majority of users. Every user is important and yes, in some situations the majority and minority will have incompatible views. But in this case, these are problems that could only benefit all parties, an extra feature (POST available on error page), the Tab->Enter scenario i see could be just me not learning from my mistakes as i have done it a few times now, and also the edit time I will take your word and hold my hands up as It's a fairly obviously vigerously tested variable.

 

But may I ask, what do you think would need to happen to make such changes? repeated topics about this subject (not supposed to be)? Heavily discussed topic (could be crap idea but fun to think about lol)? Honestly just wondering

 

Thanks

[.josh]

It would take one of the following

 

a) Convincing SMF team to build it into their core

b) Someone make a mod for it, and phpf agree to use it

c) Someone here willing to make a hack for it and maintain it (phpfreak staff doesn't have to be the one to make it, but they'd have to be the one to implement and maintain it)

 

Actually TBH, all of this is probably moot.  The way I hear it, the current phpfreak staff is working on a site/forum redesign.  I have no idea how much of it is built from the ground up vs. 3rd party software but you could always ask that they consider it as a feature.

 

 

[ChemicalBliss]

Sounds quite interesting. I guess either way I will have better results if I wait .

 

Thanks