Transitioning from Joomla to PHP Framework

[MatthewSchenker]

Greetings Everyone,

I've been using Joomla for about three years. I'm an intermediate PHP person, with strong CSS/Design skills.  Over the past few months I've been getting into more customized work and I want to move to a more flexible system.  I'm still making my final decision about which framework to use (I've narrowed down to CodeIgniter and Symfony).

 

I'm very interested in hearing from other people who are -- or who have been -- in my situation.  Did you use a CMS in the past, and then switch to a framework?  What kind of advice, responses, ideas can you share about making the transition from a CMS to a framework?  I'd be very interested in hearing all about it!

 

Thanks,

Matthew

[scootstah]

In the end it doesn't really make a whole lot of difference which one you pick. As far as frameworks go, CodeIgniter is probably the easiest and fastest to pick up and use from nothing. It's ridiculously easy to get up and running with it. But in the end, you can do the same things with any framework. So my advice is to download both, spend a few days working with them on a basic app, and pick whichever one you had more fun using.

[MatthewSchenker]

Hi scootstah,

I've spent many, many hours reading up on PHP frameworks over the past few weeks.  There are lots of good ones, and I know my "finalists" are just two of many choices.  At this point, I'm most impressed by the depth of documentation in both Symfony and CodeIgniter.

 

 

But I don't want this to be another "which framework should I choose?" discussion!

 

 

My goal here is to hear from people who have transitioned from a CMS to a framework: what were your reasons, what was it like to make the transition, what other advice or lessons can you share?  Or is this a silly question to ask?

 

 

Thanks,

Matthew

[scootstah]

Well, you're comparing a CMS to a framework when in reality they aren't really comparable. A CMS is a specific application, whereas a framework is simply a set of tools to create an application. It's like comparing a car to a wrench.

[MatthewSchenker]

 

Scootstah,

I hear what you're saying.  But here's how I look at it: which kind of application do I want to use to build my sites?  I've been using Joomla (a CMS), but I often dislike how it dictates the way everything needs to be done.  As I learned more PHP in recent months, I realized I'd be better building my sites with a framework.

 

 

In other words, I'm not comparing Joomla to CodeIgniter (for example).  I'm moving from building sites with a CMS to building with a framework.

 

 

But this is why I started this topic.  I'm sure there are lots of other people out there who began creating sites with a CMS and then decided to transition to a framework.

 

 

Thanks,

Matthew

[scootstah]

Joomla kind of sits on the line between CMS and framework, to be honest.

 

What I'm getting at though, is that a CMS is more of an "end product" that you finely tune for your needs. It is already a specific application to do a specific set of functions.

 

A framework is just a bunch of libraries, or "tools", to build an application.

 

You can download any existing CMS, install it, and have a fully functional website in 5 minutes. When you install a framework, all you have is "Welcome to Such and such Framework".

 

I guess I don't understand the question you are asking. Decide what type of application you are building and then find the right tool for the job. The right tool won't always be a framework, and it won't always be a CMS. You can pretty much build any kind of website with any platform out there. Joomla has enough plugins to do pretty much anything imaginable, but then again so does most of the frameworks out there.

 

It basically comes down to how hard you want to work to achieve your goal, or what you are most comfortable working with. If you are very comfortable with Joomla then you can probably build a better website with it than you could with any other tool.

[MatthewSchenker]

Hi scootstah,

Yes, know all about CMSs.  I've been using them for a while now.  They do make things "easier" but you run into trouble when you want to do really custom work.

 

I've already decided that I'll begin using a framework for many projects.  So I'm not looking to compare CMSs with frameworks.  I've already done that.

 

What I'm curious about is hearing from other people who have had the same experience as me and are making -- or have made -- the transition from a CMS to a framework.

 

Thanks,

Matthew

[thehippy]

My advice is to not throw away the tools you're using already, at least not right away, transitioning to a framework will take time.  A CMS provides a package of existing tools where with a framework you may have to build your own tools.  I was previously using thatware, php-nuke and postnuke a long time ago in what now seems like a past life.  I was used to the block layout plugin system that those previously mentioned CMSs used, when I started writing sites from scratch I found myself writing such a system, and an article system, and a caching system and an ad management/tracking system and so forth.  Even using a framework, you may find yourself in need of a few or even a great many tools you had relied upon without much consideration.  Take the time to learn the framework, figure out what tools you may be missing so you can efficiently make a website and be sure to properly build and test your toolset, its money after all.

 

This may seem like common sense, but once you have all the things you need to make a website / web application, create a skeleton or boilerplate project and as you take on projects refactor it to continually improve it.  If you have it in revision control it'll make life easier and if you ever need to update older projects you worked on it'll make that transition easier as well.

[MatthewSchenker]

Greetings thehippy,

Excellent advice!  And thanks very much for posting.

 

I should clarify that when I say "transition," I don't plan to immediately abandon Joomla CMS.  So what you're saying makes sense.  In fact, because a lot of clients already have a site in Joomla, I want to keep up on it.  But for all new projects, I want to begin using a framework.  Over time, I do expect to phase out my Joomla work, but that might take a while.

 

As you said, I've done my homework -- spent many hours reading all the documentation for CodeIgniter and Symfony (still haven't decided which one to use).  Especially with Symfony documentation, reading up is a great way to understand some general PHP concepts.

 

My reason for starting this discussion is because I believe there are common experiences when making this kind of transition.  I'm very interested in hearing what people have to say.

 

Thanks again,

Matthe