OT: Network Neutrality - save the internet

[Conjurer]

Hope I am not abusing the forum by posting here. This seems like a topic all of us should be aware of:

Do you buy books online, use Google, or download to an iPod? Everything we
do online will be hurt if Congress passes a radical law in upcoming days
that gives giant corporations more control over what we do and see on the
Internet.

Internet providers like AT&T are lobbying Congress hard to gut Internet
freedom. They would allow AT&T to choose which websites open most easily
for you based on which site pays AT&T more. If this law passes, almost
every popular site--from Google to eBay to iTunes--must either pay
protection money to companies like AT&T or risk having their websites
process slowly. That why over 400,000 people have signed a petition
opposing Congress' effort to gut Internet freedom.

We can all do our part to save the Internet--can you sign this petition to
Congress? Click here:

[a href=\"http://www.civic.moveon.org/save_the_internet/?id=7481-3601727-1rtqd7je.IURSP9ARYewgQ&t=5\" target=\"_blank\"]http://www.civic.moveon.org/save_the_inter...RSP9ARYewgQ&t=5[/a]

This petiton will be delivered to Congress before the House of
Representatives votes in several days. When you sign, you'll be kept
informed of the next steps we can take to keep the heat on Congress.

If you want more information, here are two really good places to look.

SavetheInternet.com Coalition Web Site
[a href=\"http://www.savetheinternet.com/\" target=\"_blank\"]http://www.savetheinternet.com/[/a]

New York Times Editorial--"Keeping A Democratic Web"
[a href=\"http://www.freepress.net/news/15263\" target=\"_blank\"]http://www.freepress.net/news/15263[/a]

Thanks.

[lookingblue]

the internet won a big victory today [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/smile.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\":smile:\" border=\"0\" alt=\"smile.gif\" /]

[a href=\"http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/topnews/wpn-60-20060525NetNeutralityScoresAWin.html\" target=\"_blank\"]http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/topnews/...ScoresAWin.html[/a]

but this war is not over, its just getting started. [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/unsure.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\":unsure:\" border=\"0\" alt=\"unsure.gif\" /]

as geeks we should understand the impotents of this issue and do something about it.

[a href=\"http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/5009250.stm\" target=\"_blank\"]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/5009250.stm[/a]

[.josh]

I just had a conversation about this with an online buddy. just thought i'd share it, to give my 2 cents. It's kinda long, so you've been warned [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/unsure.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\":unsure:\" border=\"0\" alt=\"unsure.gif\" /]

p.s. - i'm not sure what the board policy on "curse" words are, but i think there may be some sprinkled in this conversation here and there... so I'm just giving advanced warning if you find curse words offensive like they make your eyes bleed or something... yeh, there's your warning.

[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
have you heard anything about companies like AT&T and other broadband companies trying to split the internet into 2 tiers
[b]KingPhilip says:[/b]
not recently
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
i don't know all the details but basically they want to like,
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
shit i'm not entirely sure what it's about
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
but it involves splitting it into 2 groups one that pays and one that doesn't and the one that pays gets priority as far as accessing the internet
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
or something
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
i'm not sure
[b]KingPhilip says:[/b]
thats stupid
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
"...But telecoms companies in the US do not agree. They would like to implement a two-tier system, where data from companies or institutions that can pay are given priority over those that cannot."
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
i think basically it means that on top of paying for the ISP to even access the internet in the first place
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
if you pay extra money, the data you send/receive will have priority over the data from people who do not pay the extra fee
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
so pretty much, all those timeouts you get cuz of heavy traffic... yeh, expect that to happen to your site if you don't pay
[b]KingPhilip says:[/b]
stupid
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
there's 10 people sending data through a pipeline and 9 of them paid the extra fee so you automatically get bumped down to last in the list before your shit gets transmitted. so chances are, someone is gonna get a timeout
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
well to be honest, i'm actually surprised that the internet has remained "free" for so long
[b]KingPhilip says:[/b]
yah
[b]KingPhilip says:[/b]
true
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
and i fully expect it to eventually be regulated
[b]KingPhilip says:[/b]
yup
[b]KingPhilip says:[/b]
kinda like driving a car
[b]KingPhilip says:[/b]
you have to pay for cargas
[b]KingPhilip says:[/b]
car/gas
[b]KingPhilip says:[/b]
car being your pc,
[b]KingPhilip says:[/b]
gas being your ISP
[b]KingPhilip says:[/b]
but if you want to go faster you can do a toll road
[b]KingPhilip says:[/b]
and pay ore
[b]KingPhilip says:[/b]
more*
[b]KingPhilip says:[/b]
in a way
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
i remember reading on this same topic a while back. in addition to all that, ISP providers want to even block access to competing services and competitors of their affiliates
[b]KingPhilip says:[/b]
lol wtf?
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
yeh, so for example:
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
if i hookup through charter communications and they are affiliated with amazon.com and i was trying to find a place to buy/sell books or whatever, guess what, all that will be funnelled to me is amazon.com
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
all those other amazon.com type places... blocked
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
and i couldn't even go to like, time warner's site to see what kind of ISP services they offer
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
i mean, on the one hand, i see their side of it. i shouldn't expect to walk into burger king and be able to ask about mcdonald's menu or prices or buy a happy meal
[b]KingPhilip says:[/b]
lol
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
nor should burger king have to tell me "yeah we have our combo #1 for 4.99 but you can go to mcdonalds and get the same thing for 3.99 and you can get blah with it, etc...
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
cuz they are their to sell their shit, not someone else's shit
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
there*
[b]KingPhilip says:[/b]
yeah
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
but on the other hand
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
well, the other hand is that the internet should be a free and open market with untainted resources.
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
but that's not really fair to an ISP (as mentioned above)
[b]KingPhilip says:[/b]
...
[b]KingPhilip says:[/b]
yeah
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
so the only weight to the other hand's argument is majority rules
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
the way i see it
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
is that the ISP's have logic, reason and fairness on their side
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
but avg joe and people like google inc. stand to be hurt by that, so they are opposed
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
and they are the majority.
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
I think in the end the ISPs will probably win
[b]KingPhilip says:[/b]
yeah
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
because people forget that america is not a democracy. it's a representative democracy
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
majority does not necessarily rule
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
and it will all boil down to a judge's decision
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
or rather, a panel of judges.
[b]KingPhilip says:[/b]
yea
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
and they will make a decision based on fairness, not majority rules
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
so i think the ISPs will eventually win.
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
but
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
i think when that happens
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
people are going to end up going back to how it was before
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
before central servers
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
dialup bbs systems and shit
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
only better cuz you can turn your computer into a server for free
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
the gaming industry already does shit like that. play with a group of friends; one of you makes your computer the server for the game
[b]KingPhilip says:[/b]
yeah
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
idk
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
on the other hand
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
if we look at tv as an example of what might happen
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
obviously there are more shoe brands out there besides nike and reebok, but they can afford to pay for ads
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
everything on tv is determined by companies
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
whoever paid the highest price to have their shit shown, instead of someone else
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
but nobody complains
[b]KingPhilip says:[/b]
yeah
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
it will happen. the ISPs will win. if a company does not pay to have their data on a higher priority, they will stand in the back of the line. They will bitch but they will pay it, cuz it's the cost of doing business. cuz if they don't, they will go out of business
[b]KingPhilip says:[/b]
yeha
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
Just like everything else. You don't get the same options for hosting providers if you get some free service, as opposed to paid service
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
that's the basic principle of capitalism
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
hell, we were just talking about that same thing earlier: offer our game for free, but you get extra "incentives" if you pay real $$ to help you get ahead in the game
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
that's the trick
[b]Crayon Violent says:[/b]
that's the name of the game