How to remove space after image and begining of next cell?

[ghurty]

I have a page that has alot of cells.

 

The problem is that I have images/flash in the cells.

 

Is it possible for me to remove the space underneath the flash item and have the next cell begin right away, not after a small space? How about to the left/right of the image (login.gif)?

 

<tr>
				<td valign="top" height="100%">
					<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="800">
						<tbody>
						  <tr>
						    <td id="dnn_TopPane2" class="toppane" colspan="3" align="center" valign="top">
				          <tr>
							<td height="0" colspan="3" align="center" valign="top" class="toppane" id="dnn_TopPane"><object classid="clsid:D27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000" width="888" height="290" id="FlashID" title="rotate">
							  <param name="movie" value="files/Index-main1.swf">
							  <param name="quality" value="high">
							  <param name="wmode" value="opaque">
							  <param name="swfversion" value="9.0.45.0">
							  <!-- This param tag prompts users with Flash Player 6.0 r65 and higher to download the latest version of Flash Player. Delete it if you don’t want users to see the prompt. -->
							  <param name="expressinstall" value="Scripts/expressInstall.swf">
							  <!-- Next object tag is for non-IE browsers. So hide it from IE using IECC. -->
							  <!--[if !IE]>-->
							  <object type="application/x-shockwave-flash" data="files/Index-main1.swf" width="888" height="290">
							    <!--<![endif]-->
							    <param name="quality" value="high">
							    <param name="wmode" value="opaque">
							    <param name="swfversion" value="9.0.45.0">
							    <param name="expressinstall" value="Scripts/expressInstall.swf">
							    <!-- The browser displays the following alternative content for users with Flash Player 6.0 and older. -->
							    <div>
							      <h4>Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.</h4>
							      <p><a href="http://www.adobe.com/go/getflashplayer"><img src="http://www.adobe.com/images/shared/download_buttons/get_flash_player.gif" alt="Get Adobe Flash player" width="112" height="33" /></a></p>
						        </div>
							    <!--[if !IE]>-->
						      </object>
							  <!--<![endif]-->
							  </object>
						    </div><tr valign="top">
							<td width="328" valign="top" class="leftpane" id="dnn_LeftPane"><p><img src="files/custlogin.gif" width="354" height="28" alt="login">                                
							  <p>
						      <p>
					          <p>
				              <p> </p>
				        </td>

							<td width="33" valign="top" class="contentpane" id="dnn_ContentPane"><a name="2234"></a><span id="dnn_ctr2234_ContentPane" align="left"><!-- Start_Module_2234 --></span></td>

[Hybride]

If your design uses tables, then throw those tables out and learn CSS.

 

Secondly, do you have an image or link we can look at to see what you mean?

 

Thirdly, what small space? Are you talking about all those extra <p> tags you have?

[SuperBlue]

I suspect that the mising/overlapped object closing tag may be the source of your problem.

 

You should also avoid the use of non-breaking-spaces, and tables, to force a particular layout. Try to forget about the deprecated attributes of html, and clean up your markup in favor of alternative CSS Properties.

 

Your code looks really messy, try validating it. And ditch those conditional comments, you shouldn't need to code for older browsers like IE6.

 

 

[haku]

Anyone coding for a user base that still uses IE6 needs to code for them. Doing anything less would be ignoring the needs of your users.

[SuperBlue]

Not quite, because you can always advice your users to update, or shift their browser with one of the several of other, usually better alternatives. There is no one who "needs" to use IE6 as you put it. There might be someone who are forced to use it, in lack of better, for whatever reason. But again, that's not really our problem.

 

We need standards that we can rely on, IE6 is not that standard. I've already gone trough this on several occasions, and there have not really been any valid arguments as of why you should support such outdated browsers. Its an outdated thinking, from a time where standards where less developed. Now most browsers  generally support the standards, to a degree where they are usable and reliable. This in turn cuts down on the  time required on design, and frees our hands for more important stuff. Like new site-features, optimizing our pages, as well as enhancing usability.

 

It usually comes down to fear of loosing visitors, but people will in reality be willing to update. Of cause given that you take the time to educate those users, advice them to update, and remove your "fixes", so they can see for them self. Your users don't "need" to use IE6, using it is their own choice, and their own responsibility. They however wont shift their browser, until they see the problems for them self.

 

 

But Hay! Not that it would make the slightest difference for me, since I've ditched support for the right reasons. But maybe Haku will change his mind. For instance, when was the last time you used IE6? I can tell you, that last time i used it, it felt like the Internet crashed. Scripting "errors" everywhere, except some single bigger websites. It was basically impossible for me to browse the web normally. I can't imagine anyone in their right mind would sit down, and take crash after crash, when they can update to IE7/8 within a few mins, and be done with it.

 

Some web designers are quite simply mentally stuck, they refuse to move on, until the majority of users have taken the first step. That's generally something i frown upon, and i do it for the right reasons. Of cause you should listen to your users to some degree, but there are some key points you shouldn't let them influence, and web standards is one of them.

 

Our responsibility is design, not browser related. We should be able to design a page entirely offline, without ever having to look in a browser, and that is actually possible with current browser versions, there's however still some way before its practical. I don't like fiddling around in the dark for solutions, just because some browser don't support the standards.

 

It must be every browser developers job, to ensure support for standards. This increasingly becomes important as more browsers are made, because we quite simply can't test our pages in each and every browser and device. Developers should release frequent smaller updates, to fix bugs, and less frequently updates adding new features. Currently they don't do this, because they are trying to gain as big a market share as possible.

 

Webslices and such useless features, is a perfect example. Microsoft should have focused more on standards, and moving the web forward.

 

 

[haku]

Not quite, because you can always advice your users to update, or shift their browser with one of the several of other, usually better alternatives.

 

I disagree fully, as you are putting your own needs ahead that of your users. That is bad business.

 

There is no one who "needs" to use IE6 as you put it. There might be someone who are forced to use it, in lack of better, for whatever reason. But again, that's not really our problem.

 

Some people in some companies are not able/allowed to upgrade. But ignoring that fact, if a user wants to use IE6, it's their own choice. To decide that you as the developer take precedence over them as the user is bad business. Do it at your own risk.

 

For instance, when was the last time you used IE6?

 

What does that matter? It's not whether I use it, it's whether my users use it, which 30% of them do.

 

Some web designers are quite simply mentally stuck, they refuse to move on, until the majority of users have taken the first step. That's generally something i frown upon

 

And you have every right to feel that way. But it's your own business that will suffer as a result if enough of your users are using IE6.

 

Our responsibility is design, not browser related.

 

Web design IS browser related. That's like saying cars aren't road related.

 

We should be able to design a page entirely offline, without ever having to look in a browser

 

And the world should be full of peace, with no war, and every little girl should have a pony. But often the way things should be aren't the way things are.

 

I don't like fiddling around in the dark for solutions, just because some browser don't support the standards.

 

None of us like it, but that's part of a professional's job. The more you do it, the easier it gets. IE6 is a pain in the ass, but it doesn't take me that long to get stuff to work in it anymore.

 

It must be every browser developers job, to ensure support for standards.

 

You should phone the guys at Microsoft and let them know that, they don't seem to have entirely figured it out yet.

 

This increasingly becomes important as more browsers are made, because we quite simply can't test our pages in each and every browser.

 

Only the ones that your users are using. Fortunately, more and more of them are using standards compliant browsers, which don't require any fixing between browsers. But for the time being, ignoring the needs of your users because it's a hassle for you is bad business.

[SuperBlue]

 

Not quite, because you can always advice your users to update, or shift their browser with one of the several of other, usually better alternatives.

I disagree fully, as you are putting your own needs ahead that of your users. That is bad business.

Users are generally willing to update, given the site in question is important enough to them. Putting my own needs before my users as you put it, is only bad for business, in the case where my users wouldn't have a choice.

 

And above is not the case, as I've stated on multiple occasions, they even have a better choice then their current. Even Win9x users still have a choice, a better choice even. And that choice is called Opera, which is working quite well on win9x. Software developers generally don't support win9x, and i don't support IE6, or other older browsers, which doesn't natively support the standards I'm using.

 

The problem is that people are trying to use standards in these browsers, that they don't support natively.

 

 

There is no one who "needs" to use IE6 as you put it. There might be someone who are forced to use it, in lack of better, for whatever reason. But again, that's not really our problem.

Some people in some companies are not able/allowed to upgrade. But ignoring that fact, if a user wants to use IE6, it's their own choice. To decide that you as the developer take precedence over them as the user is bad business. Do it at your own risk.

Some companies may have an impractical system setup, that's correct, but luckily most system admins know how to setup their systems properly. There are however still setups which disallow the users to fix smaller issues on their own, like that of updating their browser, when prompted. That is not of our concern. And such companies are recommended a more practical system setup, or at least to update essential software on regular basics.

 

Besides, i don't really see people browsing the web from work. They should be working! If browsing a particular website, is a part of their work, then their boss, system admin, or whatever, should ensure that their browser, actually is supported by the site in question. Just like they would ensure that Photoshop supports windows XP before they go out and buy it.

 

For instance, when was the last time you used IE6?

What does that matter? It's not whether I use it, it's whether my users use it, which 30% of them do.

That dose not matter at all, it was an example. It wouldn't make a difference. Fact is, its an outdated browser, regardless of how many websites removes their hacks for IE6, and how many that don't.

 

Some web designers are quite simply mentally stuck, they refuse to move on, until the majority of users have taken the first step. That's generally something i frown upon

And you have every right to feel that way. But it's your own business that will suffer as a result if enough of your users are using IE6.

Its not only how i feel, if you look close enough. I also can't be bothered by ignorant users, and the small minority who for whatever reason cant update.

 

Our responsibility is design, not browser related.

Web design IS browser related. That's like saying cars aren't road related.

Indeed, but we shouldn't have to deal with browser specific bug, that's up to the developers of those browsers/devices. We can't keep testing our designs in each and every browser and device which is made, just because the developers of same, don't understand their position, the responsibility which comes with making of such browsers/devices.

 

That would be beyond the standards, and require even more browser/device specific knowledge, something we should work to avoid.

 

We should be able to design a page entirely offline, without ever having to look in a browser

And the world should be full of peace, with no war, and every little girl should have a pony. But often the way things should be aren't the way things are.

We are getting there, and we will get there if we keep pushing for standards, we are already very close, so close that its already possible with minimal browser specific knowledge.

 

I don't like fiddling around in the dark for solutions, just because some browser don't support the standards.

None of us like it, but that's part of a professional's job. The more you do it, the easier it gets. IE6 is a pain in the ass, but it doesn't take me that long to get stuff to work in it anymore.

Applying browser specific hacks is not a part of our job, it used to be, because we didn't have an alternative. Now we do, and its called following the standards. This is not about how many hacks you can apply, and still force a desired rendering in a browser which natively doesn't support the web standards. This is about moving the web forward, and learning from past mistakes.

 

If you wan't to create something in older browsers, not natively supported through current standards. Then either revert to old standards (such as table based layouts), or ditch support for those "platforms", aka browsers/devices.

 

It must be every browser developers job, to ensure support for standards.

You should phone the guys at Microsoft and let them know that, they don't seem to have entirely figured it out yet.

They have very much figured it out, they have actively been seeking to improve support for standards, both in IE7 and in IE8. They should however also put more of an effort into smaller updates, not just security related.

 

This increasingly becomes important as more browsers are made, because we quite simply can't test our pages in each and every browser.

Only the ones that your users are using. Fortunately, more and more of them are using standards compliant browsers, which don't require any fixing between browsers. But for the time being, ignoring the needs of your users because it's a hassle for you is bad business.

The limited testing required due to browser bugs, (if any at all), in modern browsers, is minimal.

 

What needs? the imaginary ones? Its more often a matter of updating their browser, then it is a matter of choosing an alternative. It takes 5mins to update their browser, or install an alternative. While it can take hours, days, or even months before we get around finding a solution to a browser specific bug. I can't see how that's bad business. Its even whats best for the web as a whole, rather then just a few users of my website.

 

 

Rest assured, that I'm not ignoring any actual needs of my users.

[Daniel0]

I think it's perfectly okay to set minimum requirements for your users.

 

Do you also complain if your 8-year-old computer doesn't run a modern PC game as well as a modern computer does? If you use software that was released eight years ago you shouldn't expect that you'll have an as good experience as you would have had with modern software.

 

A company that doesn't want to upgrade from IE6 just has lazy sysadmins, and they can be lazy because people are letting them. Maybe when websites start breaking for their users they'll start doing their job.

[haku]

Up to you guys really. But it's bad business.