Web Standards Freaks

[dustinnoe]

With IE7 rolling out and fixing many of their bugs, web standards are becoming easier and easier to comply with.  I think there should be an area for all us web freaks to write tutorials and communicate on the issues surounding web standards, particularly separation of layers. 

Take a moment to vote and/or leave a coment.

[.josh]

i'd have to say that overall i'm indifferent.  why? well, thing is, this is phpfreaks.com.  the primary focus of phpfreaks.com is php. SQL pretty much goes hand in hand with php, so it is no surprise that we have forums for sql here too. But even still, we have a mysqlfreaks.com, though as far as i know, the forums are still down there, and you get a message to come here for sql questions.

we do have some other forums here for html, css, javascript, and even a general website critiques forum, and i guess you could argue that if we have those, then why not this? But i think the main reason we even have those forums are because people are working on websites that involve php, and eventually they have a question that isn't strictly php related, so rather than shoo them off to some other place, we try to accomodate them.  But strictly speaking, they don't really "belong" on this board, as it is supposed to focus on php. 

To be honest, I think that this is probably the one (significant) fault I have found with the phpfreaks.com boards: it's not that I think there [i]shouldn't[/i] be boards dedicated to one thing, but i think it would be [i]better[/i] to have a one-stop-shop for all things web development.  Look at devshed for instance.  You can go there for virtually everything from php to asp to js to c++ to assembly to flash. 

but I will say this: the php forums here are alot more active than the php forums there.  You may have a lot more people going to a site that has everything under the sun, but the truth is, you're probably more likely to find what you're looking for in a place that specializes in one thing.  Here's an analogy: I can go to walmart and get some bread from their bakery, along with practically everything else, because walmart has pretty much everything, but I would have a lot bigger bread selection, and the quality will most likely be a lot better, if I were to go to a standalone bakery. 

I might be totally wrong about this, as I was not with phpfreaks from the beginning, but it is my belief and observation that the spirit of phpfreaks is to be a standalone bakery, not a walmart.  Are web standards tutorials and issues something of importance? Of course! But does it necessarily belong here? I'd have to overall say no.  But in following that train of thought, one must re-consider the true validity of the afformentioned "mercy" forums here...

But like I said, I wasn't here from the beginning, so I may have the whole goal of this board interpreted wrong.  Or for all I know, maybe it started out that way, and that the owners created all these sister sites for that purpose, but because phpfreaks seems to be the most active of all of them, maybe it is eventually turning into a one-stop-shop, whether it is consciously being done so or not. 

Anyways, that's my 2 cents.

[AndyB]

What is "separation of layers" and what's it got to do with web standards? Separating style and layout and content is the sensible thing to do, even the recommended thing (WAI), but it isn't a standard as far as I know.

I'm indifferent about 'web standards freaks' as well. Crayon Violent makes an excellent point with the Walmart analogy.

There's no doubt that there are a great many people here who can post authoritatively about all things server-side, and that's what brings the traffic and keeps bringing it.  I don't think there are a [i]large number[/i] of people here who are prepared to comment authoritatively about web standards.  Provide links, yes. Provide authoritative comment, no.  Without a large number of prospective respondents to standards questions a forum devoted to standards is likely to be not much more than a bunch of questions with occasional wrong or ill-informed answers blighted by personal inexperience and the very occasional gem of an answer.

[dustinnoe]

[quote]Here's an analogy: I can go to walmart and get some bread from their bakery, along with practically everything else, because walmart has pretty much everything, but I would have a lot bigger bread selection, and the quality will most likely be a lot better, if I were to go to a standalone bakery. [/quote]

The Web Freaks is a one-stop-shop.  Anyone who knows about phpfreaks knows about the rest of the Web Freaks Network.  In a sense, The Web Freaks is a virtual mall with lots of focused shops.  Many web developers don't even consider designing sites that are standards compliant and semantically correct.  Web standards would be an excellent addition to that virtual web development mall.

[quote]What is "separation of layers" and what's it got to do with web standards? Separating style and layout and content is the sensible thing to do, even the recommended thing (WAI), but it isn't a standard as far as I know.[/quote]

Accessibility

[quote]There's no doubt that there are a great many people here who can post authoritatively about all things server-side, and that's what brings the traffic and keeps bringing it.  I don't think there are a large number of people here who are prepared to comment authoritatively about web standards[/quote]

The world of web standards is HUGE!  There are several sites that have podcasts on a regular basis that support web standards and accessibility.

Podcast - http://www.dustindiaz.com

[quote]Without a large number of prospective respondents to standards questions a forum devoted to standards is likely to be not much more than a bunch of questions with occasional wrong or ill-informed answers blighted by personal inexperience and the very occasional gem of an answer.[/quote]

Most of the questions here are answered with bias!  Developers tend to develop their own way of doing it.  The thing about Web Standards is that there is a standard which has the purpose of getting everyone on the same page.  Just think where we could be if IE would get on the same page as eveyone else.

[.josh]

oh i definately agree that the web freaks as a network of sites is a one-stop-shop.  But instead of it all being on one board, it is spread out on several boards. That is what I meant by phpfreaks.com (one individual board) being a bakery instead of a walmart.

but if you feel that webstandardsfreaks.com would be an excellent addition to this "virtual mall" as you say, then uh, lol, register it and maybe the owners of the webfreaks.com might let you join it? well i'm not sure exactly what Eric would do as far as that. I can't speak for him.  Not tryin' to piss in your cheerios or nothin'.. i am guilty of not really caring about web standards, myself.  Well, it's not that I don't care, it's just that it's not my specialty. I just do the coding.  Someone else gets to make it look pretty and make sure it's to standards.