ZEND vs Custom - What do you think?

[johnrb87]

Hi all

 

I wonder if people can help me out here.

 

It's a "bespoke" vs "framework" question, so not sure its belongs in here, but I didn't want to post it in the ZEND group, as it may have many more "pro ZEND fans" who read it, and I wanted a general thought.

 

This is all based on the fact that I have a big project coming up and I want to know if I should be sticking with a custom job, or if something like ZEND is the way to go.

 

Basically I have been developing PHP for about 2 years now and I have always thought a custom site written from scratch was the best way to go, not only does it allow you to have the minimal code needed to run the site, therefore reducing load, space and bandwidth, but it also allows you to know exactly how the system works, I guess the downside is that you have to spend more time doing the coding.

 

But I have a few friends who use frameworks, ZEND has been coming up more and more, it's not really my ideal system to use as I prefer coding from scratch (not sure why),  but they swear by it, and always tell me its great, its winning awards and none of them code from scratch, one of them even quoted that it "will become the standard for development" - is this true?

 

Apart from being massively bulky and containing tons of files with scripts and functions that you might never ever use, what do people see as a downside to ZEND, If any?

 

Is it best to code from scratch, and if so, why? Or does using something like ZEND much better?

 

I guess if you always use ZEND, then you never really enhance your skill as a coder and never really learn anything new, plus I always think it's kind of cheeky using a pre-built system.

 

Is there a good argument that would say using ZEND is not really a good idea? Or is the general feeling toward ZEND being a good thing?

 

Surely if people know ZEND, they know how to play the security of the site to there advantage and therefore can break the security of other ZEND systems, or at least cause some hacks to a site.

 

Any thoughts would be great

 

Thanks everyone

[fortnox007]

Well i have never used a program like zend. I used joomla as CMS here and than. But I assume for getting to know php writing from scratch is a nice way, at least that's what I think. But in the end I am pretty sure you will end up with your own scripts and ways and in fact have a frame work of your own. Btw don't you have to pay for Zend framework?

If so I would call that a downside for a poor student

[pornophobic]

I've read a lot and I've learned that while frameworks can speed up production of apps, they can also lead to more set backs as a developer. That's because they have their own methods and it's like learning a new syntax really.

If you're serious about developing, the best thing to do is write up your own classes and change them when and where you need to since you know them from the ground up.

 

Myself, if I can, I stay away from any frameworks and libraries that are out there. The PEAR classes are really, really useful, but entire frameworks, if you're wanting to learn more and more about PHP, are an evil, evil thing and can really set you back.

As far as security goes, I'm pretty sure that even if someone knew how to tinker around with any framework, it'd be the same as tinkering around with PHP at it's C source and all that. Nothing is ever 100% secure.

[ignace]

they can also lead to more set backs as a developer

 

Only to those developers that don't think before they act. A framework is not a one-size fits all (in contrary to what you would believe of a framework), the framework designers had a few goals in mind and these may or may not conflict with your project, prototyping a framework prior to development is generally a good idea.

 

If you're serious about developing, the best thing to do is write up your own classes and change them when and where you need to since you know them from the ground up.

 

This surely is an advantage however it's harder for other people to join your team (lack of documentation, possibly even tests)

[rwwd]

Hi all,

 

Bespoke is a good way of learning - and documentation only really applies if you are in a team environment, saying that I develop basically on my own (though there are a few people who help out) and I always comment code.  I do this in C & when I write assembly language too (but without comments that stuff is impossible to read!!) but as I have never used zend or Joomla I cannot give an opinion to this; for me bespoke is best, but if your on a time limit, I would assume that a framework would be ideal.

 

I suppose it would depend on the project too?

 

Cheers,

Rw

[johnrb87]

Thanks for the thoughts everyone.

 

Has anyone else got any views on this subject?