zhangy Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Does anyone know a way to skirt around the chinese firewall? I know a few sites that are able to somehow redirect around it, but how i dont know. My site was just recently censored for reasons unbeknownst to me. No, its not porn, its a site for teachers of English. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel0 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I suppose you can tunnel through a computer outside of the firewall using SSH. I'm not suggestion that you should break the law in any way though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.josh Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 If you have a site for helping their education system, why not go find out why you got blocked and/or appeal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhangy Posted January 16, 2009 Author Share Posted January 16, 2009 CV, if you know the answer to the how and/or where questions begged by question I would be very happy to know the answers. For now, today is Saturday in China and I believe that the "ministry of we've disappeared more people than have ever lived in your entire state" is closed on the weekends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhangy Posted January 16, 2009 Author Share Posted January 16, 2009 Seriously though I wouldn't know where to begin with that, and the amount of palms that would have to be greased in order to get my little site uncensored just makes it unfeasible. That is why I am trying to figure out some sort of workaround. Certainly other reputable sites have found there way around it. I'm just looking for some insight from anyone who might have dealt with this type of thing before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.josh Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I don't have any idea who to contact for that. I was just making the general statement that if you have a legitimate website for teachers in china, you could possibly appeal to someone or other. But, the fact that you're instead trying to "get around" the firewall kind of speaks volumes about your legitimacy, IMO. Could be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhangy Posted January 16, 2009 Author Share Posted January 16, 2009 I can certainly understand your doubt in this case. But the fact is that despite its many positive aspects, China is still a nation controlled by totalitarian government that employs some of the strictest controls over its various forms of media. As for the legitimacy of my site you can see for youself at www.eslassembly.com. Earlier this month the country's web censors did a major overhaul and added about a 100 "known" sites to there censored list. Apparently I was one of them... again for reasons I don't know of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.josh Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I know china is labeled as pretty secretive and controlling, but that's not really the point I was making. Trying to get around imposed restrictions raises questions of legitimacy, because you feel their rules somehow shouldn't apply to you, and you are looking to circumvent the restrictions through channels other than what the chinese govt. deems proper in their eyes. You can call them secretive, controlling, prudish, insert anything you choose, and you can claim you site is the most legitimate in the world, but at the end of the day, that's your opinion. And even if a lot of other people share that opinion, it doesn't somehow make it right to decide china's rules don't apply to you. It's like going to your friend's house and he tells you you can't come in unless you take your shoes off and you decide to walk in with your shoes on because you don't feel you should have to. Or maybe you have a 'legit' reason like your socks are stinky dirty and you don't want to rub your funk on his carpet. Well that's your opinion and you are nonetheless not respecting his rules. The proper thing to do would be to ask your friend if you can keep your shoes on for whatever reason. And I have a sneaking suspicion that "I don't know who to ask or appeal to" is probably not a legitimate excuse to the chinese govt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhangy Posted January 16, 2009 Author Share Posted January 16, 2009 Wow, It almost sounds as if you are agreeing with the concept of internet censorship... I mean you can liken it to something as simple as walking on clean carpet with dirty shoes at a friends house, sure you can look at it that way. Or, you can also look at it as if while in your neighbor's house he decides that it is no longer ok for you to breath and puts a bag over your head. (and for the context of this argument leaving is not on the option menu) So in this case you would just say "well in my neighbors eyes I am deemed not fit to breath, and its not right for me to decide that his rules dont apply to me"? I doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akitchin Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Wow, It almost sounds as if you are agreeing with the concept of internet censorship... I mean you can liken it to something as simple as walking on clean carpet with dirty shoes at a friends house, sure you can look at it that way. Or, you can also look at it as if while in your neighbor's house he decides that it is no longer ok for you to breath and puts a bag over your head. (and for the context of this argument leaving is not on the option menu) So in this case you would just say "well in my neighbors eyes I am deemed not fit to breath, and its not right for me to decide that his rules dont apply to me"? I doubt it. .. i hardly think your site being blocked is more akin to murder than it is to a transgression of etiquette. either way, CV's point was that if you honestly think your site is legitimate and deserves to be unbanned, the proper method for doing so is to go through the proper authorities for appeal, rather than trying to circumvent the rules. whether you agree with them or not, the rules are the rules and if you don't follow them, you can't expect to be received warmly for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.josh Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Wow, It almost sounds as if you are agreeing with the concept of internet censorship... I mean you can liken it to something as simple as walking on clean carpet with dirty shoes at a friends house, sure you can look at it that way. Or, you can also look at it as if while in your neighbor's house he decides that it is no longer ok for you to breath and puts a bag over your head. (and for the context of this argument leaving is not on the option menu) So in this case you would just say "well in my neighbors eyes I am deemed not fit to breath, and its not right for me to decide that his rules dont apply to me"? I doubt it. Sure, I will extend the analogy to your friend insisting you have a bag over your head, but you can't just throw in "...and you can't leave" because nobody is forcing you to cater to people in china. I never said I agreed with china's internet policies. But that's their rules, and if I go to their house, then I should expect to follow their rules. Would you like it if I went to your website and cracked it, because I don't like the fact that you expect me to enter in my ss number or cc number or even go through xyz process? Or would you expect me to follow your rules and register/login and follow the scripts you have in place, if I want to visit your site? I bet you'd be pretty peeved if I circumvented your scripts, and would respond accordingly, because I broke your 'house' rules. It's the same principle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhangy Posted January 16, 2009 Author Share Posted January 16, 2009 Unfortunatly your ethical perspective on bureaucratic procedure doesnt parallel that of norm here in China. In the western world we take for granted proper procedure and etiquette. However here there is a world of difference. That aside, there is no channel to take in order to address the issue as the government does not formally acknowlege the censorship. This isnt America/Canada/UK we are talking about. You cant simply petition your way to freedom here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhangy Posted January 16, 2009 Author Share Posted January 16, 2009 CV its not exactly the same principle. You are assuming that I let you on "my site" to begin with. But in this instance we are talking about not being allowed the option of even getting on the site(internet) much less being able to get there and make a decision whether to hack it or accept tedious xyz processes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.josh Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 CV its not exactly the same principle. You are assuming that I let you on "my site" to begin with. But in this instance we are talking about not being allowed the option of even getting on the site(internet) much less being able to get there and make a decision whether to hack it or accept tedious xyz processes. It's still the same principle. You not letting me on your site to begin with is just another rule. I could decide that I don't like that rule and do as I please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel0 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 That's easy to say living in a democracy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.josh Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 That's easy to say living in a democracy... Last time I checked, "hacking" is illegal in the USA. Exactly what rules are in place by whom is not really relevant; we're talking about whether I should respect other people's rules or just do as I please, based on my own standards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel0 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Right, but you're still not in the same position as he is. You can appeal, he cannot. Therefore, he is more inclined to break the rules seeing as there isn't really another option. History has shown it lots of times - people doing stuff their masters/superiors/lords/whatever didn't want them to. The French Revolution, anti-government demonstrations in Burma in 2007 (which technically were illegal), American War of Independence ("American" dudes didn't do what British dudes wanted them to, they go to war and "American" dudes become American dudes because they won), and the list goes on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhangy Posted January 17, 2009 Author Share Posted January 17, 2009 That's easy to say living in a democracy... Last time I checked, "hacking" is illegal in the USA. Exactly what rules are in place by whom is not really relevant; we're talking about whether I should respect other people's rules or just do as I please, based on my own standards. Danial0 makes a very good point, and actually "what rules are in place by whom..." is relevant because its exactly what the basis of this post is about: getting around the obstruction placed by Chinese censors. You are taking the argument out of the context with which it was written and applying it to a general moral value. Of course I agree that a person should respect the wishes of their friends and neighbors when talking about a free society. But again we are talking about something very specific: a despotic regime that systematically removes information as a form of controlling peoples opinions and beliefs. If we are friends and you tell me that I cant wear my shoes in your house, certainly I will take them off. But consider this: if you are a slave, and your master tells you that you can't sleep in the same room as your wife... would you obey? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbin Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Errrrr.... Wouldn't the CN gov not exactly be happy with you if they found out about your site? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamez Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Living in a strict environment is no excuse to break the rules every once and a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbin Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I must say, I'm all for violating rules if they're stupid. Well, in an environment where having said laws changed is out of the question. I hate to sound like who ever said the democracy thing earlier, but Lamez, thinking like that is easy when you're safe in what ever country you live in. If you lived in China, you might feel differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhangy Posted January 17, 2009 Author Share Posted January 17, 2009 corbin, keeping the government happy is not my obligation, and actually it should be just the opposite. People shouldn't be controlled by governments. Governments should be controlled by people. Lamez, your oversimplifying the state of affairs similar to the way CV was. This matter isn't about "strictness", this is oppression. We're not talking about "damn, my parents are not letting them go out on a school night." No, this is "My father sent an email to a friend in America and now hes in a prison work camp being "reeducated" for the next ten years. Now I am not comparing my situation with the censored website to the latter statement, but my point is that I am not going to respect this force of oppression and do nothing; not if it can be helped. When you were a kid, if a bully stole your lunch money in school would you let them get away with it? What about now that you are an adult? If you have the option to avoid being harassed by a brutish force, whether it is a bully or a teacher or a government, wouldn't you use it? That is what this post was supposed to be about... finding the options; not defending them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.josh Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 yeah except you aren't campaigning to get rid of the censorship/oppression...you're just wanting to skirt the rules for your own random site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhangy Posted January 17, 2009 Author Share Posted January 17, 2009 Yes, your right. My only interest in posting this topic was to see if people had any creative ways to bypass internet censorship so that I could then use those ideas for my site. I'm not trying to start a revolution here. I just want people to be able to access my website; a site that I put a lot of time into and one that I believe will prove useful to its user demographic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerRobot Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 CV, aren't you supporting completely agentic behaviour here? Seems to me like you're suggesting we should always obey the rules regardless of our opinions and moral standards. Admittedly humans are pretty good at this sort of behaviour, but it hasn't exactly led us to nice places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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