corbin Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Oh race does exist, but what the Human Genome Project shows is that there are no human races in the biological sense. An anthropologist might still say that human races exist because they have different metrics for determining race. "no consistent patterns of genes across the human genome exist to distinguish one race from another. " Really what I think the article should have said was no justification for races. I consider the definition of race skin color, and that is passed genetically... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waynewex Posted July 28, 2009 Author Share Posted July 28, 2009 Oh race does exist, but what the Human Genome Project shows is that there are no human races in the biological sense. An anthropologist might still say that human races exist because they have different metrics for determining race. "no consistent patterns of genes across the human genome exist to distinguish one race from another. " Really what I think the article should have said was no justification for races. I consider the definition of race skin color, and that is passed genetically... But if what you use to define race can change regardless of it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbin Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 What I mean is that I would venture to say almost everyone considers the main deciding factor behind race to be skin color. The Human Genome project is saying that they haven't found any special genes or anything that imply inferiority or superiority or even important differences between the races. What exactly is science's definition of a race? Skin color? Cranial structure? Facial structure? Other phenotypes? So, basically I think there are races (just look at people), but there are not important differences among races. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel0 Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Hmm... http://www.cartage.org.lb/en/themes/Sciences/Lifescience/HumanRaces/BiologyRace/BiologyRace.htm http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/biology/b103/f00/web2/ramon2.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.josh Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 The Human Genome project is saying that they haven't found any special genes or anything that imply inferiority or superiority or even important differences between the races. Do you really think they would say something if they did find anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel0 Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Ah... conspiracy theories. They're always interesting I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.josh Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Hey I'm just saying...if scientists were to suddenly discover that one race is in fact "superior" to another, can anyone even begin to fathom what kind of repercussions that would have on the world? I mean, the entire history of our existence revolves around people thinking they are better than others, and look what all has happened. You can write it off as a conspiracy theory; that's fine. I'm just saying, it would make sense that the powers that be would keep something like that secret. Just like keeping aliens a secret. Can call that a conspiracy theory all you want but it still makes sense that if they were real, it would best be kept secret as long as possible, because of what would happen if it became common knowledge. Mass hysteria, complete upheaval of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel0 Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Sure, but you can always make up any arbitrary and irrational reason why you would be better than someone else. Religion, culture, ethnicity, etc. Even if races existed among humans, how would you objectively setup superiority criteria? It depends on what qualities you regard as most important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.josh Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Sure, but you can always make up any arbitrary and irrational reason why you would be better than someone else. Religion, culture, ethnicity, etc. Well, yeah, but that's not really relevant. Those are not physical, biological differences. Things like that will always weigh in (heaviest of all, usually) when deciding who is "superior." Even if races existed among humans, how would you objectively setup superiority criteria? It depends on what qualities you regard as most important. Well it really depends on what level of granularity you go for. I mean, if you are just looking at one metric, there's really no room for varying interpretations. Either it's bigger/smaller or it's not. But if you are comparing many things across the board, of course people are going to have different ideas of what makes for a "superior" race, overall. I mean shit, look at rpg's. Some people choose to be a wizard and cast spells because they put more stock into intelligence, etc.. . Some people choose to swing a double sided axe as a towering barbarian, because they put more stock into things like strength. If you compare just one thing between the two, like wizard's strength vs. a barbarian's strength, there's not really any room to say a barbarian is not superior. Same concept for real life attributes, really. It would have to be a pretty damn big discovery to really out-weigh difference of opinion, though. Like for instance (just an example, for argument sake), they discover that by changing xyz in our dna, "superpowers" like telepathy, telekinesis, super ant-like strength, etc.. can be unlocked in people of one race, but not another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel0 Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Sure, but you can always make up any arbitrary and irrational reason why you would be better than someone else. Religion, culture, ethnicity, etc. Well, yeah, but that's not really relevant. Those are not physical, biological differences. Things like that will always weigh in (heaviest of all, usually) when deciding who is "superior." I think we're pretty much saying the same thing here. What I mean is that in terms of "racism" (not just restricted to biological race here) will/can exist regardless of the existence of biological races in the human species. Whether you base the FUD/hatred on race or on any other factor doesn't really matter. It would have to be a pretty damn big discovery to really out-weigh difference of opinion, though. Like for instance (just an example, for argument sake), they discover that by changing xyz in our dna, "superpowers" like telepathy, telekinesis, super ant-like strength, etc.. can be unlocked in people of one race, but not another. Because races within same species by definition can cross-breed it would be possible transferring certain genes (and thereby the wanted traits) by biologically engineering the organisms. We've been doing this with plants since the dawn of agriculture using old fashioned evolution. Today we have more sophisticated methods for selectively picking certain traits. We can for instance make tomatoes that when they're ripe will take longer time before the skin starts to wrinkle. The only reason why we haven't attempted doing this on humans, at least within public knowledge, is because of ethics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizmola Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 National Socialist parties are deluded. You'll often find that the members are completely out-of-touch with reality and prone to believing in far-fetched conspiracy theories that you and I wouldn't be able to present to others without a knowing smirk. It's fear. That's all. Nationalism in Ireland is pretty much leftist, but that doesn't make it any better. When I was growing up, I thought that it was cool to support the local nationalist party in Ireland (Northern Ireland issues etc), but now, I'm almost anti-Irish Nationalism, much to the dislike of my friends, who I don't have political debates with for the obvious reasons. Hijacking this thread Do you live in Ireland? I'm just about to embark on a trip there for a wedding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waynewex Posted July 29, 2009 Author Share Posted July 29, 2009 National Socialist parties are deluded. You'll often find that the members are completely out-of-touch with reality and prone to believing in far-fetched conspiracy theories that you and I wouldn't be able to present to others without a knowing smirk. It's fear. That's all. Nationalism in Ireland is pretty much leftist, but that doesn't make it any better. When I was growing up, I thought that it was cool to support the local nationalist party in Ireland (Northern Ireland issues etc), but now, I'm almost anti-Irish Nationalism, much to the dislike of my friends, who I don't have political debates with for the obvious reasons. Hijacking this thread Do you live in Ireland? I'm just about to embark on a trip there for a wedding. Yea I do. It's a pretty easy-going place, unless you're in Dublin of course. You should enjoy it here; although don't expect any good weather. I have been there many times already -- wife is from Dublin. It's been a couple of years, so looking to get back. Even with the weather and the painful euro-dollar exchange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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