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.josh

is Perl worth it?

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you look at this all wrong.

Language design and Application design are separate issues. Python is a better designed language, and if you doubt this I just have to say that you have not used the language.. it is very very well designed.

You can do everything you can do in most languages in other languages, but the fact is some are better than others the excuse they both produce the same output does not make them the same in terms of language quality.

I never said perl or other languages have no use. They do, but we are talking about making a recommendation to someone wanting to learn a new language from scratch and its because of this I recommend the language with the best design.

You say check out both of them but you have not checked out python, dont you feel like a hypocrite about that? I have checked out most of the languages out there including perl...

Php is my current language of choice because

1. I am designing for the web
2. I am more fluent in it and I love Zend Studio.

but this does not change the fact php is a very poorly designed language, it is useful and it has its place but it is poorly designed, yet I use it anyway...

From a language design point of view Perl is better than php and python is better than perl..

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Despite Nameless12's [possibly] provacative statements I do agree - and believe it is hard to deny - that in terms of design PHP is pretty poor and will ingrain some bad habits into users who don't take it upon themselves to look into other languages.

In terms of clean design I think [b]Python > Perl > PHP[/b] is the order of things.

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I'm not sure what you think "clean design" means -- and just remember that Perl predates all of these other languages by a good decade or so, at the very least -- and there's no question that PHP was modeled after Perl.

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I suppose by it I mean design that is simple, yet powerful and well thought out. Perl is designed for purpose, but arguably over-complicated in the syntax it allows. PHP however clearly isn't designed  - rather it "evolved" and why that can mean it adapts very well and is easy to pick up it also means there are alot of inconsistencies.

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I can already see this turning into every other post I've read about the two. You're right, I haven't really programmed with Python too much. And the "better designed" argument? You still see old Chargers out on the street clobbering new Hondas. Even though the Honda's are better designed (by far) doesn't mean that the Charger is any less of a car.

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All of this is a matter of personal preference -- I'm sure any decent programmer can flex their own favourite language quite well.

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[quote author=c4onastick link=topic=107138.msg517208#msg517208 date=1170178772]
I can already see this turning into every other post I've read about the two. You're right, I haven't really programmed with Python too much. And the "better designed" argument? You still see old Chargers out on the street clobbering new Hondas. Even though the Honda's are better designed (by far) doesn't mean that the Charger is any less of a car.
[/quote]

you are the one making this seem like every other argument,  in every other argument the people that continue it are the ones that turn it into an argument all i did was state an opinion earlier and you continued it and treated it in this manner. Unlike all the other close minded people that makes flames on this subject I am just being objective.

Dont talk about python the way you are till you learn more about it. Its people like you who make opinions before trying stuff out that start flames... I am just being objective.

Why this might seem like I am starting a flame by saying these things and being direct I am just sick of the YOU CANT SAY THAT IT WILL START A FLAME, flames are not started by the people that start a topic but by the people who continue it.

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But just in case... LOCKED.

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