Future Of Development?

[BluwAngel]

hi

 

im wondering where do you see future of web in general, is internet currently at its highlight(except audio search etc but that is progressing too)

what can happen in 5-10 years - will we have more developers then its needed

 

and what backend development do you recommend as future investment (for web) zend, MVC, MVVM, codeigniter, coding in clear php code or maybe something else

few years ago people talked alot about zend and it is now successful but zend2 is out and its not going good way as i can see - what in your opinion is "next new thing"

[Monkuar]

Next new thing would be 3d web pages by webGPL, (Firefox is starting this soon).

 

Or maybe HTML 5 driven pages using web sockets as a backend support, loading pages/etc instantly for a fluid feel. (Which can be achieved today, but not everyone is ready for the HTML 5 phase yet). HTML 5 working it's way up though.

 

But this is totally my opinion and im sure some people will here will just think im a idiot but I could careless, I am telling you what I feel

[Hall of Famer]

It seems to me that Symfony 2 is quite successful so far as PHP framework, has the potential to beat Zend Framework. Nodejs is getting more and more popular too, I wonder how big a difference it can make.

[trq]

It seems to me that Symfony 2 is quite successful so far as PHP framework, has the potential to beat Zend Framework.

 

It's not a competition.

[scootstah]

It's not a competition.

 

Yeah, my thoughts exactly. When it comes to frameworks, there is no be-all end-all "best" solution. No one framework is the right choice every time.

Edited September 25, 2012 by scootstah

[BluwAngel]

Yeah, my thoughts exactly. When it comes to frameworks, there is no be-all end-all "best" solution. No one framework is the right choice every time.

 

ye i know but back 3-4 years ago there was prediction that zend will e huge, and today its on top but its slightly going down these days, event zend2 cant keep them on top, so is it good idea to invest time in what is good now or look for something that will be big in future? since i used to write php from scratch

[scootstah]

Zend is big, and is a perfectly viable and capable framework.

 

so is it good idea to invest time in what is good now or look for something that will be big in future?

 

I think those are both poor options. Yes, you have to consider it, but it's not a huge deal, unless you want to seek out jobs for only that specific platform.

 

What you should be looking for is a framework that best fits the needs of the current project. You might find that you use the same framework a lot, and that's fine. But, sometimes you might find a different framework that does something a little different or better.

 

A framework is essentially a toolbox full of tools. Most frameworks have wrenches, and screwdrivers...but sometimes a specialty tool is what you need.

[ManiacDan]

A friend of mine just asked me about learning Symfony2, so I'll c/p what I said to him:

 

I personally loathe symfony, but that's because I prefer custom-written frameworks, not because I have something to point you to that's significantly better. It's way too verbose and covers all the bases, so it ends up being like MS Word. Everything can be done and there's 9,000,000 options and sometimes you just can't figure out why your text is coming out weirdly kerned and god nobody cares just release it.

 

It's getting really popular, and it's really robust. Their database support is weak for "real" data structures like what we have here, but a normal database should be fine. We use propel instead of doctrine specifically for that reason, but either is fine. Twig is kind of a pain, but again it's not like I can point you to a better solution. It's the lesser of the evils, and should let you get something together to your liking.

My favorite framework is closed source, but I did enjoy https://github.com/gmr/framewerk when I worked with it. Edited September 25, 2012 by ManiacDan

[scootstah]

I agree with you, but keep in mind that not every framework is as "feature rich" as Symfony. But, for the most part, there is still going to be a lot of bloat and unnecessary (to the project) things when using a framework.

[ManiacDan]

It just annoys me that there's a facebook plugin but they don't support composite foreign keys. Get data modeling right before you start doing extra crap.

 

There's also a LOT of file bloat. Every database table is represented by SIX PHP classes, many of them empty. In order to add a custom setter to a file, you have to open at least 3 more so you make sure you're hitting all the right functions. And forget about trying to load symfony in something like Zend which will try to scan the project file for autocomplete information, there's too many objects.

 

The fact that it loads every translation file on the entire site every time you load anything bothers me too. The overhead is ridiculous, nothing is compartmentalized. Each "bundle" is not necessarily self-contained, everything is in the global scope to the symfony app. In contrast to this, everything is heavily namespaced, so you need to import a dozen classes before you can do anything useful in a controller, but other things like translations and template files are automatically global with no importing necessary. Silly.

[Hall of Famer]

It just annoys me that there's a facebook plugin but they don't support composite foreign keys. Get data modeling right before you start doing extra crap.

 

There's also a LOT of file bloat. Every database table is represented by SIX PHP classes, many of them empty. In order to add a custom setter to a file, you have to open at least 3 more so you make sure you're hitting all the right functions. And forget about trying to load symfony in something like Zend which will try to scan the project file for autocomplete information, there's too many objects.

 

The fact that it loads every translation file on the entire site every time you load anything bothers me too. The overhead is ridiculous, nothing is compartmentalized. Each "bundle" is not necessarily self-contained, everything is in the global scope to the symfony app. In contrast to this, everything is heavily namespaced, so you need to import a dozen classes before you can do anything useful in a controller, but other things like translations and template files are automatically global with no importing necessary. Silly.

 

lol are you sure about this? In my application each database table has one class that wraps the data and performs certain actions, I thought it was already way too much. Six sounds like an overkill to me, but perhaps Symfony has them for different uses?

[ManiacDan]

Oh I'm quite sure. Symfony has the base class, the peer class, the query class, and an override class for each of those (since it deletes and rewrites the parent classes every time you regenerate your data model from the yml file). To find an object in the DB, you instantiate a new instance of the Query class (which extends the baseQuery). The Query class uses values from the Peer class to determine table names and restrictions (which are usually inherited from the basePeer class), then returns an instance of the main class (extending baseMain).

 

There's actually SEVEN classes per table, since foreign keys are stored in the tableMap class...which I assume can be extended, but I've never seen that.

 

It's really...really ridiculous.