ocpaul20 Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 (edited) Routing issue: Cannot see a wireless router from a wired router on the same network.I have a very simple home network with a broadband connection from my ISP coming into the house with their 4-port modem/router (192.168.1.1) on it.From there I have 2 ethernet connections, one each to a wired router(192.168.1.7) and a wireless router(192.168.1.2)The wired router has one connection to my Debian Squeeze PC (usually 192.168.1.24)the wireless router has 2 or 3 connections to a PC and a tablet (usually something like 192.168.1.100 & 101... etc)The internet from my PC (192.168.1.24) is working fine through the wiired router, and the PC & tablet on the wireless router are working fine too.My problem is that I want to be able to 'see' the wireless router from my PC and I cannot connect to it or 'see' any of the connected devices.Maybe I am misunderstanding how this networking thing should work, but I think it should be possible to do this.Can anyone help me please? a) I have turned off iptables # iptables -F # iptables -L Chain INPUT (policy ACCEPT) target prot opt source destination Chain FORWARD (policy DROP) target prot opt source destination Chain OUTPUT (policy ACCEPT) target prot opt source destination Chain logdrop (0 references) target prot opt source destination b) ifconfig -a eth1 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr fc:75:16:e1:b8:13 inet addr:192.168.1.24 Bcast:192.168.1.255 Mask:255.255.255.0 inet6 addr: fe80::fe75:16ff:fee1:b813/64 Scope:Link UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:9123 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:9696 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 RX bytes:1100294 (1.0 MiB) TX bytes:844749 (824.9 KiB) Interrupt:20 Base address:0xde00 lo Link encap:Local Loopback inet addr:127.0.0.1 Mask:255.0.0.0 inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host UP LOOPBACK RUNNING MTU:16436 Metric:1 RX packets:2740 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:2740 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 RX bytes:247076 (241.2 KiB) TX bytes:247076 (241.2 KiB) b) I have added routes(I think) to the other router from my PC # route -n Kernel IP routing table Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use Iface 192.168.1.1 192.168.1.7 255.255.255.255 UGH 0 0 0 eth1 192.168.1.2 192.168.1.1 255.255.255.255 UGH 0 0 0 eth1 192.168.1.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 eth1 0.0.0.0 192.168.1.7 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 eth1 # arp -an ? (192.168.1.7) at 00:14:6c:0b:1d:da [ether] on eth1 ========================================== from the other end, the wireless router when I connect a wired connection to a laptop I get the following similar picture (the broadband router) # ping 192.168.1.1 PING 192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1) 56(84) bytes of data. From 192.168.1.107 icmp_seq=2 Destination Host Unreachable From 192.168.1.107 icmp_seq=3 Destination Host Unreachable From 192.168.1.107 icmp_seq=4 Destination Host Unreachable ^C --- 192.168.1.1 ping statistics --- 6 packets transmitted, 0 received, +3 errors, 100% packet loss, time 5009ms pipe 3 (the wireless router) # ping 192.168.1.2 PING 192.168.1.2 (192.168.1.2) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from 192.168.1.2: icmp_req=1 ttl=64 time=0.378 ms 64 bytes from 192.168.1.2: icmp_req=2 ttl=64 time=0.381 ms 64 bytes from 192.168.1.2: icmp_req=3 ttl=64 time=0.452 ms ^C --- 192.168.1.2 ping statistics --- 3 packets transmitted, 3 received, 0% packet loss, time 1998ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 0.378/0.403/0.452/0.041 ms # arp -an ? (192.168.1.1) at <incomplete> on eth0 ? (192.168.1.2) at b0:48:7a:67:ea:7a [ether] on eth0 # route -n Kernel IP routing table Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use Iface 192.168.1.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 eth0 169.254.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.0.0 U 1000 0 0 eth0 0.0.0.0 192.168.1.2 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 eth0 # ifconfig eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:16:d3:bb:64:09 inet addr:192.168.1.107 Bcast:192.168.1.255 Mask:255.255.255.0 inet6 addr: fe80::216:d3ff:febb:6409/64 Scope:Link UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:5858 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:5491 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 RX bytes:7093094 (6.7 MiB) TX bytes:666534 (650.9 KiB) Interrupt:17 lo Link encap:Local Loopback inet addr:127.0.0.1 Mask:255.0.0.0 inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host UP LOOPBACK RUNNING MTU:16436 Metric:1 RX packets:121 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:121 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 RX bytes:10032 (9.7 KiB) TX bytes:10032 (9.7 KiB) Edited December 28, 2014 by Zane Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/293420-routing-issue-cannot-see-a-wireless-router-from-a-wired-router-on-the-same-network/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzman1 Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Routing issue: Cannot see a wireless router from a wired router on the same network. How did you get this output then? (the wireless router) # ping 192.168.1.2 PING 192.168.1.2 (192.168.1.2) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from 192.168.1.2: icmp_req=1 ttl=64 time=0.378 ms 64 bytes from 192.168.1.2: icmp_req=2 ttl=64 time=0.381 ms 64 bytes from 192.168.1.2: icmp_req=3 ttl=64 time=0.452 ms Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/293420-routing-issue-cannot-see-a-wireless-router-from-a-wired-router-on-the-same-network/#findComment-1501327 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocpaul20 Posted January 2, 2015 Author Share Posted January 2, 2015 I have been ill so have not replied. There are two routers attached to the isp router just inside the appartment. The ping above was done from a laptop connected by an ethernet cable to the wireless router. It shows that computers connected to either the wired or the wireless router can only "see" the router on each "arm" of the isp router. I want to be able to access wireless pc or tablets from my pc connected to the wired router "arm" of the network and i want them to be able to connect to my pc too. What i want is to see for example 192.168.1.24 from 192.168.1.100 (laptop) routing through 192.168.1.2 （wireless router）then 192.168.1.1（isp router） then 192.168.1.7（wired router） then finally to 192.168.1.24（my pc） Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/293420-routing-issue-cannot-see-a-wireless-router-from-a-wired-router-on-the-same-network/#findComment-1501522 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kicken Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 In the router configuration, there is usually a way to set it's mode between either Gateway mode or Router mode (options may be named differently). You need to make sure they are set both set to Router mode. If they are in gateway mode then each one will create a new sub-net for it's devices effectively isolating them from each other. Also make sure DHCP is turned off on them and let the main ISP's router handle address assignment. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/293420-routing-issue-cannot-see-a-wireless-router-from-a-wired-router-on-the-same-network/#findComment-1501541 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocpaul20 Posted January 2, 2015 Author Share Posted January 2, 2015 Ok, thats helpful, thanks. I will make sure this is done and post back. Slight problem is that the isp router and wireless routers are both in chinese so I need to get help to do that, but should be possible. The wired one is a (fairly old English) Netgear RP614 v3, the wireless one is a TP-LINK TL-WR840N. I have used them both previously as single routers attached to an isp router in another apartment but this is the first time I have tried two 'arms' one going to a wireless router and one goimng to a wired router. I am getting the IP address from the nearest router rather than the isp router so I will turn off DHCP and just let the isp router allocate that and see if it all sorts itself out after I have done that. I was thinking all along that I needed to add some items to a routing table somewhere in Debian but of course the physical network should work independent of the OS which is in each end PC or tablet, so the answer must lie in the routers themselves. Previously I had not really considered this router solution. :-) Paul Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/293420-routing-issue-cannot-see-a-wireless-router-from-a-wired-router-on-the-same-network/#findComment-1501562 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocpaul20 Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 Still no joy as I have removed the 'tick' from "Use router as DHCP server" (see screenshot hopefully attached) and now it does not connect to the internet at all - hence the manual connecting below. I am trying to get the section from my PC to the isp router to work properly before I tackle the other parts. Is there anything else I can try please? Not sure how to mark code in bbcode # cat /etc/network/interfaces # This file describes the network interfaces available on your system # and how to activate them. For more information, see interfaces(5). # The loopback network interface auto lo iface lo inet loopback # The primary network interface allow-hotplug eth1 iface eth1 inet dhcp # pre-up /etc/init.d/firewall start ==================================== # ifdown eth1 Internet Systems Consortium DHCP Client 4.1.1-P1 Copyright 2004-2010 Internet Systems Consortium. All rights reserved. For info, please visit https://www.isc.org/software/dhcp/ Listening on LPF/eth1/fc:75:16:e1:b8:13 Sending on LPF/eth1/fc:75:16:e1:b8:13 Sending on Socket/fallback DHCPRELEASE on eth1 to 192.168.1.7 port 67 send_packet: Network is unreachable send_packet: please consult README file regarding broadcast address. # ifconfig eth1 192.168.1.24 netmask 255.255.255.0 up # route Kernel IP routing table Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use Iface 192.168.1.0 * 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 eth1 # route add default gw 192.168.1.7 # iptables -L Chain INPUT (policy ACCEPT) target prot opt source destination Chain FORWARD (policy ACCEPT) target prot opt source destination Chain OUTPUT (policy ACCEPT) target prot opt source destination # arp -a ? (192.168.1.7) at 00:14:6c:0b:1d:da [ether] on eth1 (from my pc 192.168.1.24) # ping 192.168.1.1 PING 192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1) 56(84) bytes of data. From 192.168.1.24 icmp_seq=1 Destination Host Unreachable From 192.168.1.24 icmp_seq=2 Destination Host Unreachable From 192.168.1.24 icmp_seq=3 Destination Host Unreachable ^C --- 192.168.1.1 ping statistics --- 5 packets transmitted, 0 received, +3 errors, 100% packet loss, time 4022ms pipe 3 Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/293420-routing-issue-cannot-see-a-wireless-router-from-a-wired-router-on-the-same-network/#findComment-1501663 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kicken Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Did you make sure to configure the router for the proper mode as well? That is the most important thing otherwise the router will create it's own sub network that is isolated from your main network. Post some screenshots of the routers configuration pages if you're not sure what the proper settings should be. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/293420-routing-issue-cannot-see-a-wireless-router-from-a-wired-router-on-the-same-network/#findComment-1501668 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocpaul20 Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 I appreciate you trying to help me. I have tried to start the Debian dhclient manually and it cannot find a server which suggests that the routing is indeed 'stuck' at the wired router 192.168.1.7 I dont know where to find the proper mode in the routers menu. I assume it would be under the LAN setup so I have included screenshots from this and even the WAN setup option too. Not sure if this screenshot is uploading correctly but I have posted a link to an image file on another site in case the upload function does not work. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/293420-routing-issue-cannot-see-a-wireless-router-from-a-wired-router-on-the-same-network/#findComment-1501686 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzman1 Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Ah...you want to use those two routers ( the wired and wireless ) as switches not as routers. Do you have an bridge mode option to them? No DHCP no Static IP but a bridge option? Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/293420-routing-issue-cannot-see-a-wireless-router-from-a-wired-router-on-the-same-network/#findComment-1501689 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kicken Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I used to have that Netgear router, but I cannot remember if it has the right settings or not available in the configuration pages. A quick scan of the manuals I found online for both routers suggests that neither of them do. If you have a spare port on the LAN side of each router, the plug in the wire from the main router there rather than the WAN/Internet port. That should work just as well. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/293420-routing-issue-cannot-see-a-wireless-router-from-a-wired-router-on-the-same-network/#findComment-1501707 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzman1 Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Those two routers should be set to a bridge mode. Then the default gateway to all the devices is going to be 192.168.1.1 (your ISP home, local address). Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/293420-routing-issue-cannot-see-a-wireless-router-from-a-wired-router-on-the-same-network/#findComment-1501737 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocpaul20 Posted January 5, 2015 Author Share Posted January 5, 2015 I see, so I need both these to be switches/bridges and not routers.Now that I have found out how to post images to the forum I can post a diagram which will make the whole problem easier to understand. The cabling from the ISP router goes under the floor and out at an ethernet wall socket in different ends of the same room.Both these routers have 5 ethernet ports at the back, the one from the ISP router usually goes in socket next to the router power socket and the ones to the devices go into any of the 4 others.kicken If you have a spare port on the LAN side of each router, the plug in the wire from the main router there rather than the WAN/Internet port. That should work just as well. I will try to plug the cable arriving at this router from the ISP router into onee of the 4 LAN plugs and see if my PC will accept an IP address from the ISP DHCP server or if I can "see" the other wireless router side of the network.As others have already said, I do not see anywhere on the Netgear wired router menu options where I can make it into a bridge rather that a router, so I am hoping Kicken's suggestion above will sort it. I will let you know.Thanks to all for the continuing help. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/293420-routing-issue-cannot-see-a-wireless-router-from-a-wired-router-on-the-same-network/#findComment-1501775 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzman1 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I see, so I need both these to be switches/bridges and not routers. If you don't have a bridge option to them you could do what kicken mentioned above using a "cascading routing". Here is an example. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/293420-routing-issue-cannot-see-a-wireless-router-from-a-wired-router-on-the-same-network/#findComment-1501807 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocpaul20 Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share Posted January 6, 2015 Post No. 8 above shows the LAN IP setup screen on the left. This is the only place I can alter the IP address of the router and strangely, it does not show the current IP address of 192.168.1.7 in there but it will allow me to change it if necessary by filling in a new value. I do not think I can delete the IP address and have no IP address.Jazzman1 - No DHCP no Static IP but a bridge option? I dont know how to 'delete the IP address from the router completely so I am stuck with one I put in there before or one I change it to. The DHCP I have switched off.The attempt below (nothing in the WAN ethernet socket and all in LAN sockets) is the latest and shows after booting that for some reason I cannot get past the ISP router. This is possibly because the router has the account and password in it, and since it is out of the loop (as a router) now does not activate the keep-alive or password aspect. Not sure if the chinese ISP needs every stage to have account/password information but when I have this in the router previously, it seems to work. I have not removed any of the password or other information from the router, just un-clicked DHCP and not connected up the WAN ethernet socket as suggested,# ping 8.8.8.8 PING 8.8.8.8 (8.8.8. 56(84) bytes of data. ^C --- 8.8.8.8 ping statistics --- 20 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 19150ms # arp Address HWtype HWaddress Flags Mask Iface 192.168.1.1 ether e8:08:8b:3e:d7:43 C eth1 # route Kernel IP routing table Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use Iface 192.168.1.0 * 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 eth1 default 192.168.1.1 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 eth1 # ifconfig eth1 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr fc:75:16:e1:b8:13 inet addr:192.168.1.25 Bcast:192.168.1.255 Mask:255.255.255.0 inet6 addr: fe80::fe75:16ff:fee1:b813/64 Scope:Link UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:352 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:375 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 RX bytes:27454 (26.8 KiB) TX bytes:37432 (36.5 KiB) Interrupt:20 Base address:0xde00 lo Link encap:Local Loopback inet addr:127.0.0.1 Mask:255.0.0.0 inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host UP LOOPBACK RUNNING MTU:16436 Metric:1 RX packets:66 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:66 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 RX bytes:28913 (28.2 KiB) TX bytes:28913 (28.2 KiB) # cat /etc/resolv.conf nameserver 192.168.1.1 nameserver 192.168.1.1 # ping 192.168.1.1 PING 192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_req=1 ttl=64 time=0.437 ms 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_req=2 ttl=64 time=0.352 ms 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_req=3 ttl=64 time=0.305 ms ^C --- 192.168.1.1 ping statistics --- 3 packets transmitted, 3 received, 0% packet loss, time 1999ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 0.305/0.364/0.437/0.058 ms # ping 192.168.1.7 PING 192.168.1.7 (192.168.1.7) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from 192.168.1.7: icmp_req=1 ttl=250 time=3.95 ms 64 bytes from 192.168.1.7: icmp_req=2 ttl=250 time=0.237 ms 64 bytes from 192.168.1.7: icmp_req=3 ttl=250 time=0.237 ms 64 bytes from 192.168.1.7: icmp_req=4 ttl=250 time=0.237 ms ^C --- 192.168.1.7 ping statistics --- 4 packets transmitted, 4 received, 0% packet loss, time 2999ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 0.237/1.166/3.954/1.609 ms # dhclient -v -r Internet Systems Consortium DHCP Client 4.1.1-P1 Copyright 2004-2010 Internet Systems Consortium. All rights reserved. For info, please visit https://www.isc.org/software/dhcp/ Listening on LPF/eth1/fc:75:16:e1:b8:13 Sending on LPF/eth1/fc:75:16:e1:b8:13 Sending on Socket/fallback DHCPRELEASE on eth1 to 192.168.1.1 port 67 # dhclient -v Internet Systems Consortium DHCP Client 4.1.1-P1 Copyright 2004-2010 Internet Systems Consortium. All rights reserved. For info, please visit https://www.isc.org/software/dhcp/ No broadcast interfaces found - exiting. #The "attached devices" router menu option sees my PC and the ISP router. The IP address of the PC appears to have been allocated by the wired router (I cannot login to the ISP router as I dont know the password to find out the DHCP first address to allocate). When I deallocate my IP address and try to get another I cannot. The DNS name servers point to the ISP router which is not good enough to connect to the internet. I must be doing something wrong somewhere, so I will play about with a cascading routers configuration. If that does not work then I will just have to live with it the way it is. At least internet connection works for both parts of the LAN just not able to contact computers on the other sections of the LAN attached to the ISP router.I am grateful for the time and effort you have all given this thread but I think that, since it is a home LAN and not a business critical problem, I think I will just live with the restriction. I can always do some copying from my PC onto a memory stick and then attach a laptop to the wireless LAN section if I need to copy stuff out there. If I find a way, then I will update this thread so that others can take advantage of the group learning. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/293420-routing-issue-cannot-see-a-wireless-router-from-a-wired-router-on-the-same-network/#findComment-1501884 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kicken Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Here's a basic run down of what you'd want to do: First, find out what IP range the ISP's router is assigning for DHCP requests. You can determine this by plugging in your PC directly to the router and looking at what IP you receive. Second, you need to choose 2 addresses that are on that same network, but outside the DHCP range. Probably just +1 and +2 to whatever the ISP's router IP address is would work as typically the DHCP range is set higher. I'll assume for example's sake that the ISP's router IP is 192.168.1.1 and it's DHCP server begins assigning addresses at 192.168.1.50 - Run a cable from the ISP's router to a LAN port on each of your other two routers. - Configure the Wired router with a LAN IP address of 192.168.1.2. Ensure DHCP is disabled. - Configure the Wireless router with a LAN IP address of 192.168.1.3. Ensure DHCP is disabled. - Connect your other devices to the routers and ensure they are setup to acquire an IP via DHCP. I believe that should work. You'll probably want to configure the routers while they are all separate by just plugging into each one directly with an ethernet cable. After they have been configured then you can put everything together and try it. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/293420-routing-issue-cannot-see-a-wireless-router-from-a-wired-router-on-the-same-network/#findComment-1501885 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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