President-Elect Barack Obama

[Daniel0]

perenha, say one day something happened to you and you couldn't work (meaning you couldn't earn any income by yourself). There is nothing left in your life and the drugs are the last thing keeping you up. Should we let you die or should we help you get back up and running again? People do not choose to be miserable, they are it because there is no other option, or at least they see no other option. Just leaving them alone is cruel in my opinion. "Just let them suffer. As long as I'm good I don't give a shit." Way to go!!

 

For me I would rather die that rely on others to keep me going.  I am one that if I cant do it myself, then it doesnt need to be done for me.  I would love to help others out that can help themselves, or want to help themselves, but it they dont what to help themselves, why should we give them everything.

 

Because they deserve a life just as anyone else? They just happened to not be fortunate enough to get a good life like many others. They deserve a chance for a good life. But do you just think you should only get help if you have the money to get it? May I ask why you are on this site then? This site is about helping other people for free without getting anything in return. It seems to contradict with your view on life.

[.josh]

For me I would rather die that rely on others to keep me going.  I am one that if I cant do it myself, then it doesnt need to be done for me.  I would love to help others out that can help themselves, or want to help themselves, but it they dont what to help themselves, why should we give them everything.

 

It's really easy for you to say that when you're not in that situation.  It's the proverbial "What would you (or wouldn't you do) if you had a gun pointed at your head or were offered a million bucks."  People have a tendency to say one thing in theory and have a total change of heart in practice.

[peranha]

perenha, say one day something happened to you and you couldn't work (meaning you couldn't earn any income by yourself). There is nothing left in your life and the drugs are the last thing keeping you up. Should we let you die or should we help you get back up and running again? People do not choose to be miserable, they are it because there is no other option, or at least they see no other option. Just leaving them alone is cruel in my opinion. "Just let them suffer. As long as I'm good I don't give a shit." Way to go!!

 

For me I would rather die that rely on others to keep me going.  I am one that if I cant do it myself, then it doesnt need to be done for me.  I would love to help others out that can help themselves, or want to help themselves, but it they dont what to help themselves, why should we give them everything.

 

Because they deserve a life just as anyone else? They just happened to not be fortunate enough to get a good life like many others. They deserve a chance for a good life. But do you just think you should only get help if you have the money to get it? May I ask why you are on this site then? This site is about helping other people for free without getting anything in return. It seems to contradict with your view on life.

 

You should get help if you deserve it, no because you dont want to do anything for yourself.  It has nothing to do with not having enough money.

 

perenha, say one day something happened to you and you couldn't work (meaning you couldn't earn any income by yourself). There is nothing left in your life and the drugs are the last thing keeping you up. Should we let you die or should we help you get back up and running again? People do not choose to be miserable, they are it because there is no other option, or at least they see no other option. Just leaving them alone is cruel in my opinion. "Just let them suffer. As long as I'm good I don't give a shit." Way to go!!

 

For me I would rather die that rely on others to keep me going.  I am one that if I cant do it myself, then it doesnt need to be done for me.  I would love to help others out that can help themselves, or want to help themselves, but it they dont what to help themselves, why should we give them everything.

 

Nobody doesn't want to help themselves.

 

There are alot of people out there that just want to have everything paid for, and not have to work for it.

[peranha]

For me I would rather die that rely on others to keep me going.  I am one that if I cant do it myself, then it doesnt need to be done for me.  I would love to help others out that can help themselves, or want to help themselves, but it they dont what to help themselves, why should we give them everything.

 

It's really easy for you to say that when you're not in that situation.  It's the proverbial "What would you (or wouldn't you do) if you had a gun pointed at your head or were offered a million bucks."  People have a tendency to say one thing in theory and have a total change of heart in practice.

 

To tell you the truth, the only reason that I have health insurance is because the company requires that I have it to work there.  The only reason that I have auto insurance is because it is illegal to not have it.  The last time that I was at the hospital, I was unconscious and 8 years old.  If I cannot get over it myself, then I was not meant to survive it, and was meant to die.

[Daniel0]

You should get help if you deserve it, no because you dont want to do anything for yourself.  It has nothing to do with not having enough money.

 

When does someone deserve it? To me it certainly seems like that in the American society, whether you deserve it or not depends on your bank account. For instance, if you are not able to pay for medical insurance then it's just tough luck if you become really sick.

 

There are alot of people out there that just want to have everything paid for, and not have to work for it.

 

Nobody says it has to be "yo, here is $200, spend them wisely". If you are, for instance, poor and a drug addict then you are obviously not able to administer your funds wisely. There are plenty of alternatives to just handing out a check.

 

Also, imagine a drug addict desperate to get some more money to get some money for drugs. He is not able to get a job so needs to turn to alternative means of acquiring it. You know that friendly kiosk owner down the corner? Well, unfortunately things went wrong and he got killed because someone was desperate to get some money and nobody wanted to help him. Was the kiosk owner also meant to die? "Hey, tough luck, buddy. Just wasn't your day today. Gotta move on..." Had the drug addict got help from someone then he wouldn't have to do a robbery. The kiosk owner wouldn't have died. Now imagine the kiosk owner was the sole parent of a, say 16-year-old boy. Now there is no income anymore and the kid ends up on the streets. Vicious circle you know. Things likely won't turn out well for him either...

[.josh]

For me I would rather die that rely on others to keep me going.  I am one that if I cant do it myself, then it doesnt need to be done for me.  I would love to help others out that can help themselves, or want to help themselves, but it they dont what to help themselves, why should we give them everything.

 

It's really easy for you to say that when you're not in that situation.  It's the proverbial "What would you (or wouldn't you do) if you had a gun pointed at your head or were offered a million bucks."  People have a tendency to say one thing in theory and have a total change of heart in practice.

 

To tell you the truth, the only reason that I have health insurance is because the company requires that I have it to work there.  The only reason that I have auto insurance is because it is illegal to not have it.  The last time that I was at the hospital, I was unconscious and 8 years old.  If I cannot get over it myself, then I was not meant to survive it, and was meant to die.

 

Okay but you still don't get it.  Not having health insurance or car insurance is a luxury people pay for "just in case" something happens.  I myself do not like the idea of paying for something that "might happen."  We're talking about people who can't afford to put clothes on their back or put food in the mouth, let alone having a place to live or a means to get somewhere.  What the hell does car insurance or medical insurance mean to someone shivering in the cold starving? 

[effigy]

I usually don't vote, because I do not believe in picking the lesser of the two evils.

 

What about the rest of the "evils"? There were 7 presidential candidates on my ballot.

[KevinM1]

I usually don't vote, because I do not believe in picking the lesser of the two evils.

 

What about the rest of the "evils"? There were 7 presidential candidates on my ballot.

 

Holy crap!  What state do you live in?  From what I remember when I voted (it was a few weeks ago with an absentee ballot), there were four choices - Obama, McCain, Nader, and Barr - on the New Hampshire ballot.

[effigy]

IL:

 

Barack Obama/Joe Biden

Cynthia McKinney/Rosa Clemente

John McCain/Sarah Palin

Bob Barr/Wayne A. Root

John Joseph Polachek/No Candidate

Charles O. Baldwin/Darrell L. Castle

Ralph Nader/Matt Gonzalez

 

 

[corbin]

Same as effigy in my state.  (Although I didn't actually vote.)

[Lamez]

Can you give me some reasons why you wanted Obama to win?

 

Sarah Palin.

 

lol shes hot

 

If Obama was not somewhat black, then he would have not won, but then again he did bring up some good issues with some good solutions. However, I could say the same thing, and promise the same, and if I was running against him, I would not win. It is not the fact that he is "black" as far as I did not want him to win, but it was what he believed in is why I do not like him. I still did not like McCain, but his beliefs are better than Obama's.

 

Thats bullshit. What a Fox News kind of thing to say. People voted for Obama because:

 

1: People have lost patience with the Republicans.

2: They see George Bush when they look at McCain.

3: People felt nervous aboout having Palin as Vice President.

4: The McCain ticket and Republican media outlets spent more time trying to tar Obama as a socialist than paying attention to the fears for the economy.

5: McCain was unimaginative.

 

No, I said if we where the exact same, with the same VP or similar, then people would choose him. I never said that it was because he was black, you assumed it, but I did mean it!

 

lawl, its just my opinion.

 

Obamba is inexperienced, but McCain is old as well. 

[.josh]

I usually don't vote, because I do not believe in picking the lesser of the two evils.

 

What about the rest of the "evils"? There were 7 presidential candidates on my ballot.

 

Okay let me amend that to "Lesser of the $x evils." 

[steelmanronald06]

Obama/Biden

McCain/Palin

 

Oklahoma has a bar-all policy.  If you don't get 250,000 people to sign for you, and pay your dues, you don't get to be put on the ballot.  End of story.

 

// That's as far as I come in this discussion.  I hate debates like this, many of the replies I've seen are uneducated (not all, but many), and people are just shooting the shit to "look" smart when in reality most are probably just 13 year old kids who couldn't vote, but heard mommy and daddy talking about it.  On that note, the keep the topic clean or it'll be closed.

[peranha]

 

Also, imagine a drug addict desperate to get some more money to get some money for drugs. He is not able to get a job so needs to turn to alternative means of acquiring it. You know that friendly kiosk owner down the corner? Well, unfortunately things went wrong and he got killed because someone was desperate to get some money and nobody wanted to help him. Was the kiosk owner also meant to die? "Hey, tough luck, buddy. Just wasn't your day today. Gotta move on..." Had the drug addict got help from someone then he wouldn't have to do a robbery. The kiosk owner wouldn't have died. Now imagine the kiosk owner was the sole parent of a, say 16-year-old boy. Now there is no income anymore and the kid ends up on the streets. Vicious circle you know. Things likely won't turn out well for him either...

 

You can say that I am wrong, what ever you want, but this is where I end my end of this discussion as this is not the place for it.  As I see it, coming from this kind of situation (Not exactly, but kind of close).  The mother should have a job to start with, and as a 16 year old, where I live you can have a job at 14.  Get out and get one even if it is part time.  I had one when I was 12, and working full time when I was 16 to help out my parents.  I paid for some of their bills (so they as well as I) could live.  From my growing up, that is the way that I see it.  Also, to get kind of back on subject, look at Mr. Obama, he grew up with just his mother as his father walked out on them.  This is the same as your senario above, and look at him now.  He is "The most powerful man in the world" so to say as everyone else does.  I have nothing against him as it was a close election, and everyone was sick of the republican party as they think that it was them that caused all these problems.  The way that I see it it is only going to get worse before it gets better, and I dont see that happening in the near future.

 

So that is where I leave this discussion and if you have issues with what I said you can pm me if you want me to reply.

 

To steelmanronald, if your last post was a stab at me (may not have been, but just saying) and thinking that I am not able to vote, I am 24, and have followed the election as I was going to vote, but decided not to as neither of the candidates on my ballat were worth voting for in my opinion.

[.josh]

Also, to get kind of back on subject, look at Mr. Obama, he grew up with just his mother as his father walked out on them.  This is the same as your senario above, and look at him now.  He is "The most powerful man in the world" so to say as everyone else does. 

 

Um...no...that is not the same as Daniel's scenario.  For the nth time, we're talking about poor people.  Like, actual, real poor people.  Mr. Obama did not grow up poor.  Not even close.  See you keep making it out like you've had it rough growing up, but quite frankly I call b.s.  because

 

a) You have referred to things that poor people just don't care about (insurance)

b) You actually compared Mr. Obama's life story to Daniel's scenario, as if he was some poor black kid growing up on the streets of harlem, mom addicted to crack, dad some random guy out of any of the 100 his mom was forced to f**k to put food on the table.  And then claim he goes from that to most powerful man on earth. Which leads me to..

c) You actually believe poor people have a shot at being the president.  Sorry but I've never met a single poor person subscribe to that b.s. so either you're incredibly naive or lying, because that's a trademark middle-upper class belief.

d) The fact that you're even on the internet, at a programming community speaks volumes.  Now I'm not saying it's impossible for poor people to get on the internet or learn something useful.  But what I am saying is that, like insurance, the poorer you are, the less meaning things like the internet are, compared to daily survival.  While it is possible that you could have been one of those poor people who struggled and endured and against all odds broke through, it's more likely and with all odds, that you were/are not as poor as you make out to be.

 

Now you can get upset with me if you like.  You may honestly believe you had it rough.  But even the poorest people in America have it 10x better than most of the world, and that's obviously not where you are right now.  I don't think a whole lot of people really take the time to sit back and think about what they have vs. what they need.  Don't really appreciate what they have or all the little tiny inconsequential things they take for everyday granted, not even thinking about how it could possibly be a big deal to someone else. 

 

I'm not trying to judge you.  Lord knows, I've said and done a lot of things I'm not too proud of.  I'm just saying, don't make the mistake of thinking life is that easy.  Always be weary and suspicious of the easy choice.  Always be weary of deciding on any kind of level whether someone else can do something or deserves something, because you haven't been in their shoes. 

 

[effigy]

I usually don't vote, because I do not believe in picking the lesser of the two evils.

 

What about the rest of the "evils"? There were 7 presidential candidates on my ballot.

 

Okay let me amend that to "Lesser of the $x evils." 

 

So you were well-informed on every single candidate running, enough to deem them all "evil"?

[emehrkay]

There is a lot of "Why dont they just move [out of the hood] if it is so bad?" flying around in this thread.

 

Race[class/religious/age] relations are important. Get out and talk to someone different than yourself, understand their situation.

[.josh]

I usually don't vote, because I do not believe in picking the lesser of the two evils.

 

What about the rest of the "evils"? There were 7 presidential candidates on my ballot.

 

Okay let me amend that to "Lesser of the $x evils." 

 

So you were well-informed on every single candidate running, enough to deem them all "evil"?

Informed enough to know that it doesn't matter who wins they aren't the person really in charge.

[Daniel0]

The winner of the US presidential election is de facto locked to either the democratic or republican candidate anyway. It's highly unlikely that any of the other candidates would be able to get enough votes to even get near the amount of votes they'd need to win.

[effigy]

Daniel:

 

I see your point; however, how many people:

 

• bother looking outside of the Democrat/Republican realm
  
• are aware that there are more (realistic) choices prior to seeing the ballot
  
• do not rely solely on the TV for getting their information
  

 

Frankly, many of the people I've encountered know next to nothing about other parties (myself often included!). If the debates were open, the media not Democratic- and Republican-centric, etc., people would actually know something about them, and perhaps just enough to make them think down a different path, thus, opening up possibilities. After all, I thought that's what America is supposed to be about.

 

Crayon:

 

Are you an anarchist by chance? What solution do you propose againt these evils?

[The Little Guy]

In 2012, vote Google

[.josh]

 

Crayon:

 

Are you an anarchist by chance? What solution do you propose againt these evils?

 

Nah, I wouldn't say I'm an anarchist.  I'm not really sure what I am.  I think democracy and capitalism/free enterprise are decent concepts by themselves, but putting them together seems to be a bad idea, as they seem to corrupt each other.  We "have" separation of church and state because of various concerns that would lead to having them mix.  Why not try some kind of separation of business and state?  I'm sure the logistics of implementing it would be a nightmare, not to mention a lot of people would fight against it, but then, we had to go through all that when separating church and state, right?  I don't know if it's a better solution or even a solution at all, but I think it's worth exploring, or at least, debating.

[R4nk3d]

Haha, i just got a funny text from a friend of mine, even tho im for obama, its still funny.

 

All whites are to report to the cotton fields tomorrow morning for orientation.

 

XD

[Daniel0]

Daniel:

 

I see your point; however, how many people:

 

• bother looking outside of the Democrat/Republican realm
  
• are aware that there are more (realistic) choices prior to seeing the ballot
  
• do not rely solely on the TV for getting their information
  

 

Frankly, many of the people I've encountered know next to nothing about other parties (myself often included!). If the debates were open, the media not Democratic- and Republican-centric, etc., people would actually know something about them, and perhaps just enough to make them think down a different path, thus, opening up possibilities. After all, I thought that's what America is supposed to be about.

 

Indeed, however, I think the problem also lies in that people feel they waste their vote if they don't vote either republican or democratic because they know that currently there is no way another party is going to win. It's a catch-22. In order for the other parties/candidates to get more votes then people must feel there is a fair chance they will actually get elected (otherwise they'd "waste" their vote), but in order for that to happen more people will have to vote on them. Both of these requirements can obviously not be satisfied simultaneously. That's just what I think, but my knowledge of it is fairly limited. I'm not American and thus do not have the right to vote in American elections so it's not something I focus too much on.

[effigy]

I think democracy and capitalism/free enterprise are decent concepts by themselves, but putting them together seems to be a bad idea, as they seem to corrupt each other.

 

It's a catch-22.

 

Agreed on both points.

 

How are Denmark's politics in comparison?