How 1337 are you?

[Crew-Portal]

Ya english is a weird language, and coding should have additional packages to make it easier for people in a multilingual enviroment. like there sohuld be a PHP language function like:

 

<?php

php.lang(french);

Étage ("50.2") // Produira 50

Écho "Bonjour ma mère d'un autre dérange";

?>

 

I think that would be kool. I would have posted an example in Tagalog but I had no idea what that was until about 5 mins ago. I dont even know how to speak the langiage let along translate it into php make-believe functions.

 

seems like a great project for you to do.  Get the source code, go find yourself a forum that can help with the langauge that PHP Engine is written in, and make a french version of PHP

 

i will lol

[dsaba]

Quote from: Daniel0 on December 03, 2007, 09:35:25 AM

I agree with SA and Ron. It also annoys me when people abbreviate "you" to "u", "your" to "ur" etc.

 

It annoys me when people say they are annoyed by people saying they are annoyed by people saying "ur" "u"

 

Plus, it doesnt really make sense especially with programmers. Programmers are always looking for ways to do things quicker, faster, and simpler. Saying "ur" "u" is an excellent example of this for internet talking... Why the opposition? Don't tell me its not proper english, because I know you don't pronounce every word perfectly in speech conversation, because that's not proper english. I also don't like it when UK people are annoyed at US slang and US terminology and US different spelling etc.. don't you do the same thing UK people? (bugger) Proper English in its own right can be defined differently depending on where you're from.

 

 

Ya english is a weird language, and coding should have additional packages to make it easier for people in a multilingual enviroment. like there sohuld be a PHP language function like:

Don't you know the history of PHP? The PHP that is most similar to as we know it today was invented/developed/pioneered by 2 Israelis (can I get a zend anyone?) from Technion Univerisity (like the MIT of israel) in Haifa, Israel. Its nice they made an english version at all, or else we would all be coding in hebrew wouldn't we?

There are plenty of remnants/evidence that is left in php now, including lots of special functions dealing with hebrew text like hebrev() etc..

Even this:

Paamayim Nekudotayim (IPA: [paʔamajim nəkudotajim]) is the official name for the Scope Resolution Operator ( in PHP. It means "twice colon" or "double colon" in Hebrew.

 

Nekudotayim (נקודתיים) means 'colon'; it comes from nekuda (IPA: [nəkuda]), 'point' or 'dot', and the dual suffix ayim (יים-), hence 'two points'. Similarly, the word paamayim (פעמיים) is derived by attaching the dual suffix to paam (IPA: [paʔam]) ('one time' or 'once'), thus yielding 'twice'.

 

The name was introduced in the Israeli developed[1] Zend Engine 0.5 used in PHP 3. Although it has been confusing to many developers, it is still being used in PHP 5, as in this sample error message:

 

Parse error: syntax error, unexpected T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM in... on line...

[Daniel0]

Quote from: Daniel0 on December 03, 2007, 09:35:25 AM

I agree with SA and Ron. It also annoys me when people abbreviate "you" to "u", "your" to "ur" etc.

 

It annoys me when people say they are annoyed by people saying they are annoyed by people saying "ur" "u"

 

Plus, it doesnt really make sense especially with programmers. Programmers are always looking for ways to do things quicker, faster, and simpler. Saying "ur" "u" is an excellent example of this for internet talking... Why the opposition? Don't tell me its not proper english, because I know you don't pronounce every word perfectly in speech conversation, because that's not proper english.

 

That's the worst argument ever. Unless you type at something like 1 CPM the speed gain will be negligible. Besides, I don't know any programmers that would intentionally make errors. I would also consider correct pronunciation to be correct language usage and very important as well. I was once in a bus where a foreigner tried to ask me for directions but due to her poor pronunciation I wasn't able to understand most of what she said.

[dsaba]

That's the worst argument ever. Unless you type at something like 1 CPM the speed gain will be negligible. Besides, I don't know any programmers that would intentionally make errors. I would also consider correct pronunciation to be correct language usage and very important as well. I was once in a bus where a foreigner tried to ask me for directions but due to her poor pronunciation I wasn't able to understand most of what she said.

 

There is a difference between correct syntax and shortcuts. Instead of writing  if ($var == FALSE) you can write if (!$var) , this is a shortcut analogy to saying "ur" or "u" in internet talking. So no i'm not saying that programmers like to make syntax errors It was a general analogy anyways.. Comparing a programming language to a spoken living language isn't a good comparison. A spoken language is living, changing, by the people who speak it. The point of the language is for communication, (and for some attempts at superiority and pride? ) Taking these kinds of shortcuts in internet lingo still communicates quite effectively. There is no doubt in my mind that when I see the word "u" I don't think that the person didn't meant "you".

              While programming languages are not for communication as much as spoken language is, but to instruct syntax sensitive instructions to a computer. The computer can only understand certain syntax/instructions, so the details are important. Humans aren't computers though, and thankfully we can do more than only accept strict syntax rules and instructions.

              Dialects are different pronunciation, slang, and even different ways of saying things. (familiar?) One time I couldn't understand crap of what a scottish man was saying, even though he was speaking english, but I can't tell him that he is not speaking "proper english."

 

          Look at ternary syntax, a shorter way of using if/else statements in PHP. I"m sure it came into existence as part of the "official" syntax after people decided to begin taking this shortcut more and more. There would be no change without intitial change, and many time change is good you can learn from change. I find what lurks behind a lot of people's arguments who oppose little things like "u" or "ur" is that they refuse to want to understand/respect the other person at all. Understanding and education is key.

[zq29]

Personally, I don't find typing 'u' instead of 'you' to be either a shortcut or a gain in efficiency. I actually find it takes more effort to consciously make the decision to strip it down - I was taught that it was spelled 'you', so the first letter I'm going to on the keyboard is a 'y'. So, using 'u' in the middle of a sentence would take me longer than to just type the full 'you'.

 

What makes it more annoying is when people start only using vowels to represent a large number of words, I can't see how they can efficiently type a sentence like that. It gives me a headache trying to read it - It also shows a sense of immaturity too. In my opinion, of course.

 

If you find it more efficient to use these spelling shortcuts, more power to you, but why not use it privately when making notes for a project or whatnot - Not on a public forum where you are building an image of yourself.

 

Comparing the use of ternary syntax to the use of 'u' is hardly valid.

[Daniel0]

The difference between programming "shortcuts" as you refer them to and the use if "u" and "ur" in sentences is that while the use of ternary operators and an exclamation point for negating a boolean value is commonly accepted as correct. The usage of "u", "ur" and whatever annoying abbreviations one might create are not commonly accepted as being correct or standard in the English language.

[PHP_PhREEEk]

Personally, I don't find typing 'u' instead of 'you' to be either a shortcut or a gain in efficiency. I actually find it takes more effort to consciously make the decision to strip it down - I was taught that it was spelled 'you', so the first letter I'm going to on the keyboard is a 'y'. So, using 'u' in the middle of a sentence would take me longer than to just type the full 'you'.

 

In a short mobile text message, I find this acceptable to decipher. On a forum, however, I not only find it inefficient to type, but I also find it extremely time consuming to convert back into an comprehensible English sentence when reading it.

 

I remember back when we were kids and everyone experimented a bit with 'secret' languages like pig Latin or whatever. It took forever in your head to create the sentence and verbalize it. The person listening to you would stand like a deer in headlights until they reassembled it back into something sensible.

 

Anyways, this whole thing about l33t speek being a 'shortcut' or more efficient is BS. If you use it day in and day out, sure, over time you're going to become quick at deciphering. The other 90% of people reading it will find it annoying to have to 'translate' in their head, and many will just move on to another post.

 

It has only been recently that I have seen l33t speek presented as valid, using efficiency as the argument. For many years after its birth in the mid 90's, it was solely used as a 'status' symbol amongst internet gamers. How it eventually and allegedly gained some sort of legitimacy is beyond me.

 

Generally speaking, it is proper social protocol to rise to the level of your company, not lower yourself. If a majority of the users in any community are speaking reasonably coherent English, then why force them to read l33t speek? Sillyness... and agreed, very immature.

 

PhREEEk

[hcdarkmage]

If you think that "u" and "ur" is bad, check out this article: http://www.news.com/8301-13772_3-9832741-52.html?tag=newsmap.

 

Not exactly setting trends over arguing about the "appropriate" way to "l33t", but I do agree that in texting and IM's, I believe it is ok to use l33t speak, but in a forum like this . . . NO.  It is annoying trying to decipher what a problem is when you have to remember what accronyms and such that they use in the problem.

 

"Keep the l33t in the street".  Nice slogan.  I think i'll keep it!