Javascript is Crap?

[nadeemshafi9]

i use javascript every day i know exactly how to use ajaxian techniques but i dont because its unreliable, it keeps calling the server and it causes problems, lag, sync problems etc, u can use it all u like fore ur JOKE systems but i wont use it in a PROFESSIONAL system until they create a proper transport layer in the code, this http request object is ok to use on a one time basis, but teh extravigant stuff is done using it in a loop and that is flakey, rember u cant actualy loop infanatly in JS otherwise teh page wont load so they do a timeout and that flakey cos it floods teh server and the local machines memory. i done a huge JS AJAX project for my degree and i got a first class. im now a professional its been one year and i work with hundreds of systems.

[corbin]

My rebuttal:

 

Google uses AJAX.  They're also credited by some people with popularizing it.

[keeB]

i use javascript every day i know exactly how to use ajaxian techniques but i dont because its unreliable, it keeps calling the server and it causes problems, lag, sync problems etc, u can use it all u like fore ur JOKE systems but i wont use it in a PROFESSIONAL system until they create a proper transport layer in the code, this http request object is ok to use on a one time basis, but teh extravigant stuff is done using it in a loop and that is flakey, rember u cant actualy loop infanatly in JS otherwise teh page wont load so they do a timeout and that flakey cos it floods teh server and the local machines memory. i done a huge JS AJAX project for my degree and i got a first class. im now a professional its been one year and i work with hundreds of systems.

 

I was trying to come up with a witty reply to this post, but quoting it is hilarious enough.

[nadeemshafi9]

i use javascript every day i know exactly how to use ajaxian techniques but i dont because its unreliable, it keeps calling the server and it causes problems, lag, sync problems etc, u can use it all u like fore ur JOKE systems but i wont use it in a PROFESSIONAL system until they create a proper transport layer in the code, this http request object is ok to use on a one time basis, but teh extravigant stuff is done using it in a loop and that is flakey, rember u cant actualy loop infanatly in JS otherwise teh page wont load so they do a timeout and that flakey cos it floods teh server and the local machines memory. i done a huge JS AJAX project for my degree and i got a first class. im now a professional its been one year and i work with hundreds of systems.

 

I was trying to come up with a witty reply to this post, but quoting it is hilarious enough.

 

i guess it was you that created the facebook instant messanger with ajax yeh ?

[Daniel0]

i use javascript every day i know exactly how to use ajaxian techniques but i dont because its unreliable, it keeps calling the server and it causes problems, lag, sync problems etc, u can use it all u like fore ur JOKE systems but i wont use it in a PROFESSIONAL system until they create a proper transport layer in the code, this http request object is ok to use on a one time basis, but teh extravigant stuff is done using it in a loop and that is flakey, rember u cant actualy loop infanatly in JS otherwise teh page wont load so they do a timeout and that flakey cos it floods teh server and the local machines memory. i done a huge JS AJAX project for my degree and i got a first class. im now a professional its been one year and i work with hundreds of systems.

 

Do you even know what you're talking about? If you don't want to query the server constantly, then write a push server so it can send the requests to the client if there is any new information the connected client must know about.

[nadeemshafi9]

i use javascript every day i know exactly how to use ajaxian techniques but i dont because its unreliable, it keeps calling the server and it causes problems, lag, sync problems etc, u can use it all u like fore ur JOKE systems but i wont use it in a PROFESSIONAL system until they create a proper transport layer in the code, this http request object is ok to use on a one time basis, but teh extravigant stuff is done using it in a loop and that is flakey, rember u cant actualy loop infanatly in JS otherwise teh page wont load so they do a timeout and that flakey cos it floods teh server and the local machines memory. i done a huge JS AJAX project for my degree and i got a first class. im now a professional its been one year and i work with hundreds of systems.

 

Do you even know what you're talking about? If you don't want to query the server constantly, then write a push server so it can send the requests to the client if there is any new information the connected client must know about.

 

that would mean you have to modify the host which would cause portability problems, like i said, you can use it if you think you can handle it i personally would use it if and only the website is not a critical system. I mean go ahead and complexify ur systems unnecessarily "i heard its good for you", a push server would mean adding a process to ur host which would cause all sorts of problems to ur system adding unnecisary components, i think it all depends on what your trying to achive, if your site is not critical and you dont mind it failing then thats ok, but i know it is hard to keep the link live for long withoud flooding both the local and remote server. I do however think the result when working is very nice. the http request method requires you to send a variable to a file using the url, this means you have to have a whole new file for each function on the page otherwise u will have security problems.

[Daniel0]

Why the fuck would it complexify the project? If you need a push server then you need a push server. That's like saying that you should only create static pages and upload the HTML manually because adding a DBMS would complexify it and use up additional system resources. Besides, what do you think take up more resources? A daemon running in the background on the server ONLY transferring data to the client when it's needed, or having the client query the server every X seconds to check if there is something new and thereby create unneeded connections?

[nadeemshafi9]

TO MR SELF APOINTED GURU, i do like your push server method, this would mean you have to work or develop on a linux server, processes are forked differently on macs and not at all on windows using php. the current issue with cross browser compatability would make your site a disaster to handle if u use too much adcvanced JS, the three main browsers ie6 ie7 and firefox have different interpritations of javascript. like i said at the beginning you can make it for your JOKE sites. lol, GO ON LETS SEE A PSEUDO OF UR PUSH SERVER

[Daniel0]

the three main browsers ie6 ie7 and firefox have different interpritations of javascript.

 

That's why people use frameworks such as jQuery (my favorite), prototype, mootools, etc. because they are standardizing the interface for you. It just saves you a great deal of work.

[nadeemshafi9]

the three main browsers ie6 ie7 and firefox have different interpritations of javascript.

 

That's why people use frameworks such as jQuery (my favorite), prototype, mootools, etc. because they are standardizing the interface for you. It just saves you a great deal of work.

 

i have looked at JQUERY and i do like the idea but its silly it dosent have a IDE so everything looks like a string and i cant sit around and wait for them to fix bugs, for me it has to be my own code for everything made in a reusable updatable way. Id love to use JQUERY and stuff but the sites i work with just cant wait around for them to solve corss browser issues because we have people that use all 3 browsers. I am looking to add AJAX to my systems on the backend admin side to facilitate partial updates but that will fall back on the standard way. Hey im not knocking the idea im just saying it has issues and u should come to terms, maybe i just dont know the suloutions to teh isses. TELL ME IF YOU AGREE -  you cant go into a site and think its gona be an AJAX site and start AJAXIAN str8 away coz you wont have anything to fall back on and all sorts of other design issues.

[Daniel0]

[...] its silly [jQuery] dosent have a IDE so everything looks like a string [...]

 

That doesn't make any sense at all...

 

[...] and i cant sit around and wait for them to fix bugs, for me it has to be my own code for everything made in a reusable updatable way.

 

Well then make your own Javascript framework. The before-mentioned ones were merely examples of frameworks. They are by no means definitive nor required.

 

Id love to use JQUERY and stuff but the sites i work with just cant wait around for them to solve corss browser issues because we have people that use all 3 browsers.

 

Which cross-browser issues do you not feel that jQuery has addressed adequately?

[nadeemshafi9]

Which cross-browser issues do you not feel that jQuery has addressed adequately?

 

thats exactly my problem, are you the kind of person that would tell your people that you cant do anything because jquery hasent given an update, i dont know wich issues thast why i dont use it and i know there are alot of issues ive come accross, i dont rely on anyone except mysql php apache and linux javascript is a quick fix live AJAX is unstable, i have a javascript and php framework that addresses all of my needs. it dosent make calling tags and variables easier because that defeats the point of it being javascript, JQUERY is dangerouse. Jquery and otherframeworks will add another layer of incompatability and standards issues.

 

 

 

That doesn't make any sense at all...

 

these frameworks blur the lines between recognition of the base language.

 

im off for lunch brb

 

Edit by Daniel0: Added quote tags around the lines from me you quoted.

[Daniel0]

In that case you should create your own operating system, web server and language to ensure that you can always fix any bugs.

 

Also, I'm not saying that one should just start using the frameworks instead of learning the language, but once you've done that then you might benefit from using a framework (be it your own or one that is written by someone else). The benefit of using a third-party framework is that it has been tested and used by a lot of people and therefore there are a lot of eyes looking on it compared to your own framework which you likely are the sole developer of. That's also why some people argue that open source software is better than proprietary closed source software; more people are looking at it.

[nadeemshafi9]

In that case you should create your own operating system, web server and language to ensure that you can always fix any bugs. I'm not saying that one should just start using the frameworks instead of learning the language, but once you've done that then you might benefit from using a framework (be it your own or one that is written by someone else). The benefit of using a third-party framework is that it has been tested and used by a lot of people and therefore there are a lot of eyes looking on it compared to your own framework which you likely are the sole developer of. That's also why some people argue that open source software is better than proprietary closed source software; more people are looking at it.

 

you know what i am getting more and more interested in jquery and because of you im gona actualy start using it OK. no realy i do whant to make it easier so il see what its like and get back to you. im not knocking it i am scared of it thogh lol.

[Derleek]

Danieal0,

 

what do you think of mooTools?

 

i'm trying to expand my knowledge base and i'm looking at JavaScript thinking it might be a good addition.

 

that being said, i just read that you recommend learning the language thoroughly before jumping to a framework such as mooTools... Would there be any big drawback to learning the basic in's and outs of JS then jumping to mooTools or JQuery?

 

 

[Daniel0]

I haven't used mootools, but it's one of the more popular Javascript frameworks so I guess it's okay. I would recommend you to learn basic Javascript before using a framework, but it's probably not necessary. For instance, most rails developers have probably never written a standalone ruby script. Still though, I think it would be a good idea to get the basics straight before starting with a framework.

[nadeemshafi9]

the thing about third party frameworks is that you have to change the way you work to fit them this means they are prescriptive. They are dictating to you the way you do things this gives them power, you dont whant to impower a third party.

[Daniel0]

Actually it gives you power in a way as well. Say you usually use framework X, then you'll be able to overtake other projects written using framework X fairly easily because they're both written in the same way. Internally in a company that could also be a way of enforcing the way applications are written by using a standardized format so all the developers and all future developers will be able to understand code written by other people without much effort.

[nadeemshafi9]

Actually it gives you power in a way as well. Say you usually use framework X, then you'll be able to overtake other projects written using framework X fairly easily because they're both written in the same way. Internally in a company that could also be a way of enforcing the way applications are written by using a standardized format so all the developers and all future developers will be able to understand code written by other people without much effort.

true but its up to u if u whant to give up the power of being able to freely modify functions without causing a ripple effect or knowing about it, if u know the jquery script off by heart then you can use it i think because u can make updates to it yourself.

[Derleek]

true but its up to u if u whant to give up the power of being able to freely modify functions without causing a ripple effect or knowing about it, if u know the jquery script off by heart then you can use it i think because u can make updates to it yourself.

 

not quite sure what you mean by this... mooTools is completely open so you can modify it as much as you want

[keeB]

I think if you want to have a quality conversation/debate, taking the time to spell things properly and show just a tiny bit of effort.

 

Yes, I'm talking to you nadeemshafi9.

[roopurt18]

JavaScript is extremely powerful and the web wouldn't be what it is today without it.

 

That said, there are plenty of bad implementations (from sites using it to actual interpretors) to give it a bad name.  However, most people who knock JavaScript simply do not understand how it works.

 

Also, it's completely irrelevant to piss and moan about "cross-platform" problems, which web programmers do constantly.  If you don't want to deal with cross-platform problems, become a Windows, *nix, or a Java developer.  It's like hearing a psychological therapist say he hates his job because people whine all the time.  It comes with the territory.  Deal with it or get out.

[KevinM1]

JavaScript is extremely powerful and the web wouldn't be what it is today without it.

 

That said, there are plenty of bad implementations (from sites using it to actual interpretors) to give it a bad name.  However, most people who knock JavaScript simply do not understand how it works.

 

Also, it's completely irrelevant to piss and moan about "cross-platform" problems, which web programmers do constantly.  If you don't want to deal with cross-platform problems, become a Windows, *nix, or a Java developer.  It's like hearing a psychological therapist say he hates his job because people whine all the time.  It comes with the territory.  Deal with it or get out.

 

Agreed, on all counts.  Also, there are many good libraries available that virtually eliminate cross-platform issues anyway, at least where JavaScript is concerned.

[nadeemshafi9]

I think if you want to have a quality conversation/debate, taking the time to spell things properly and show just a tiny bit of effort.

 

Yes, I'm talking to you nadeemshafi9.

 

 

i just havent got the time to be checking my spellings even thogh the mac osx or firefox textboxes have them already built in, but i agree with roopurt18.