Ninjakreborn Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 In your experience what is the current best webhost for a "Developer". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel0 Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 Your own VPS or dedicated server. It gives you the freedom to setup the environment exactly as you want to and you are not restricted by the software already installed on the hosting your purchase. You can get VPSs pretty cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcoffin Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 heard good things about www.hostrocket.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolphie Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 I would agree with Daniel, however... If you can't afford a VPS or haven't got the knowledge to set one up yourself I would strongly recommend http://www.webfaction.com/ They're cheap, and have good plans. They allow PHP and Python and Ruby, PostgreSQL and MySQL. Also they provide almost complete DNS control and not only that you can pretty much have them install anything on the server for you if you require it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkhappy Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 what about for php 6? i am a noob and i just bought larry ullman's book on learning php 6. is anyone going to be hosting this anytime soon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bothwell Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 I've heard excellent things about Slicehost ( http://www.slicehost.com/ ). Basically you can set it up to have pretty much whatever you want running. You'll need to do a lot of configuration on your own, but it does give you the flexibility to play with setups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannyb785 Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 heard good things about www.hostrocket.com That's my hosting provider. I'm 99% happy, I just hate how they avoid (or ignore) questions regarding affiliate payout. Lame. Otherwise great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel0 Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 For the record, those shared hosts that gives you terabytes of diskspace and unlimited bandwidth are overselling. They are hoping that people will not use up that amount (which most actually wont) and therefore it seems that you are getting a really good deal. First of all, "unlimited" anything is impossible. There is always a limit on the hardware and technology. For instance, if you have a dedicated 10 Mbps line then you will, theoretically, be able to download at a maximum of 1.25 MB/s (the throughput will most likely be lower). If we say a month is 30 days then there are 2,592,000 seconds (60*60*24*30). That will give you 3,240,000 MB/month or roughly 3 TB/month. I.e. not unlimited. However, seeing as it's shared hosting you will certainly not have a dedicated line. If we say that each node has that connection and there are 10 clients per node then you will, on average, have 1 Mbps (128 kB/s). Doing the same calculations you will get about 316 GB/month. Again we haven't taken into consideration that that speed is only theoretical. Furthermore, no normal client will purchase that kind of hosting if they actually have such high needs. Then they will purchase a dedicated server anyways. They know that and therefore they are confident that they will be able to successfully oversell the resources. I think it's ridiculous. The particular offer I had in mind when writing this post was this one from one of the hosting providers mentioned in this topic. Another thing I hate about shared hosts is that there are other people on the same server as me. I would find it incredibly annoying if my website was down because some other moron had taken the server down because he had some script hogging all the system resources. If you are the sole user of the system then you have complete control over the used resources. Additionally there is the security aspect. With more people than yourself on the server you risk that people get access to your files. Also, PHP does by default store session data in /tmp. That directory will logically have to be readable and writable by everybody. That means that people could steal your sessions. That could be your administrative session. Overall I think shared hosting is pretty useless. You can get a VPS pretty cheap today and if you cannot set it up yourself then you could always hire someone to do it or you could purchase a managed VPS. If you got some of that so-called unlimited bandwidth, then try to run something like this from the shell 24/7: #!/bin/bash while [ 1 ]; do wget http://example.com/large_file.ext -O tmp_junk rm -f tmp_junk done Let's see how long it takes before your account gets suspended or you get a notice from your provider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandito520 Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 Well said, Daniel, it really is pretty pathetic how oversold shared accounts are. I truely don't understand how those companies get away with such low service quality, completely overloading their servers putting hundreds and hundreds of accounts on each one. And extending your example, setting aside the physical limits of the network uplink, just think of the cost of that kind of bandwidth! Softlayer, a huge multimillion dollar host, recently signed a 3 year contract for a 10Ge internet line with Internap for $80,000 a month. Which comes out to $8 per Mbps, which most hosts won't even be able to get, but using that example of unlimited bandwidth (on a 10 Mbps line) it would cost Host Rocket $80 (With the rates they probably get it would most likely be more like $150 though) a month just in bandwidth alone to power an account they sell for $5. For anyone looking for a VPS, I highly recommend WiredTree... Their great in every possible way. And notice how thats not an affiliate link , I just like the company. By the way, Daniel, who do you host with and whats your site(s)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roopurt18 Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 I've always used and recommended ServerPowered and WebHostFreaks, the company behind these forums. Not sure about the pricing but the hosting is top notch as far as I'm concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel0 Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 By the way, Daniel, who do you host with and whats your site(s)? My VPS is hosted with CheapVPS because... well, they were cheap My site is under development, so there is no point in giving you a link at the moment. I'll put a link on my profile when I'm done. It might take a while though because it is not particular high priority and I'll also be going away for vacation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenskd Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 Really well put Daniel! Another reason is that you will never be able to see your site grow, why? Oversellers have a limit on their CPU Usage(most of them) (and also most of them have a bandwidth limit set too), true you might use all space and bandwidth but it really doesn't matter much if your site doesn't receive many visitors. Eventually if your community turns out big, the only reward you will get is a suspended account if you are with an overseller. In the end you might be actually stopping your site from growing, just spend a few bucks. I would recommend steadfast.net (really love their services, hosted with them) and asmallorange.com (well... their server load is getting a bit high lately...) Don't get blind by quantity! It's just like fast food restaurants, they give you a lot for $5 and probably end up with high cholesterol, yadda yadda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharkBait Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 As a developer I always have a personal local linux box to work from and I set it up to be similar to that of many webhosts or at least the environment similar to what I use at home. My linux box is a simple machine I pieced together (probably total value is like $200-300) and runs Ubuntu Server in LAMP setup. I also set up Samba on it so editing files via my Windows box is easy as Samba makes it accessible without having to transfer files around on my machines. There is no monitor attached I just use PUTTY to log in and make changes to the server if I need to. I don't think there would be really any 'developer' webhosts out there. I mean each 'developer's needs would be slightly different right? Especially if a Client website is hosted somewhere previously (as in I didn't set it up for them) having my own DevServer allows me to work in a similar environment and when it's time to go live I upload and 99% of the time have no compatibility issues (as in missing packages). I think there has been only one client who had to get in touch with their webhost to install GD or something at one point but whatever. So if you're looking to have a server to do 'development' work on I would recommend piecing together a small cheap little server you can run *inux on locally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannyb785 Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 You guys have said multiple times you don't see why people still use shared hosting. There are many reasons why: 1) newbies. Some of us start out buying webspace without even knowing php or other languages. So the thought of us paying any more than $15 or $20 a month for something we don't even know how to use isn't a comforting thought. (especially since shared hosting usually charges up front so a payment of over $200 for something we don't know much about isn't a good feeling). 2) affordable. Some of us flat out don't have $50/mon to spend on a hobby. Paying only $5-10 a month makes it so that even if nothing ever comes of our website ventures, we really didn't lose much. 3) ease of use. Yes, if you know what your'e doing, you can install the awesome new php 6 and newest mysql versions and all that good stuff. But in reality, most of us(even most php coders) have no idea how to do that. Yea, you may say 'well you should learn' but when we're spending time learning php, creating a website, and whatnot, learning how to setup a server isn't really on our minds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel0 Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 In my opinion, part of being a developer is also knowing how the technology works. I.e. how to setup a LAMP (or WAMP) or whatever you prefer. It's rather essential in order to become good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbin Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 "3) ease of use. Yes, if you know what your'e doing, you can install the awesome new php 6 and newest mysql versions and all that good stuff. But in reality, most of us(even most php coders) have no idea how to do that. Yea, you may say 'well you should learn' but when we're spending time learning php, creating a website, and whatnot, learning how to setup a server isn't really on our minds." In my opinion, people should atleast know how to setup PHP before learning it. If they plan on using it on a website, I also think they should learn Apache basics.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roopurt18 Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 I disagree with having to know how it works before you set it up. I knew how to program long before I even knew what PHP was and when I started learning PHP I just installed xampp on a windows box. I didn't have to configure anything. Double click the installer, next, next, next, finish. I only started learning how to install and configure this stuff as the need arose. It starts small. "Ah I need to change php.ini" "Ah I need to change .htaccess" "Ah it's better to put items in .htaccess in httpd.conf instead. What's all this other stuff do in this file?" "Ah I need to recompile to enable or disable something." Shared hosting still has lots of uses; I use it for my personal site as the site's requirements don't warrant a VPS or dedicated server. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbin Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 Hrmm yeah I guess I get what you're saying. You can still eat a cake without knowing how to make one. But, it does help, as far as running into problems further down the road, to atleast know a little bit about PHP/Apache. Also, you had previous programming experience. A beginner might not even know how PHP works. (For example, that it is interpreted/compiled/what ever you wanna call it, by the PHP engine.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannyb785 Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 I only started learning how to install and configure this stuff as the need arose. It starts small. "Ah I need to change php.ini" "Ah I need to change .htaccess" "Ah it's better to put items in .htaccess in httpd.conf instead. What's all this other stuff do in this file?" "Ah I need to recompile to enable or disable something." Exactly how i learned. IMO it's better than making a thread on a php forum every time I have an issue... but to surf google(and stumble... everyone should stumble!) and figure it out. Think about it like learning guitar. Are you gonna go out and buy a $3,000 guitar as a starter? Because what if you lose interest and stop caring.. even if you could sell it, you wouldn't get all your money. Or worse if you screw it up accidently(or drop it or something), then there you go. So you buy a guitar for a few hundred bucks, learn it, love it, then upgrade. Similarly, if you've never done php or coding before, it'd be almost stupid to get VPS or a dedicated server to start off with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomfmason Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 if you don't want to setup a vps but still need a *good* shared host geared towards developers checkout http://hostingrails.com . It is mainly meant for RoR projects but they support php and python as well. They also offer subversion repositories and trac. Also, I believe you get shell access as well. IMHO, it is one of the best, if not the best, shared hosting provider out there. AFAIK they are the only shared hosting provider that offers Git repositories. An old client of mine wouldn't use anyone else. Otherwise I completely agree that setting up your own cheap vps would be the best route. Any serious developer should at least be familiar with a basic lamp setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.josh Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 Think about it like learning guitar. Are you gonna go out and buy a $3,000 guitar as a starter? Because what if you lose interest and stop caring.. even if you could sell it, you wouldn't get all your money. Or worse if you screw it up accidently(or drop it or something), then there you go. So you buy a guitar for a few hundred bucks, learn it, love it, then upgrade. Similarly, if you've never done php or coding before, it'd be almost stupid to get VPS or a dedicated server to start off with. In my experience, buying the more expensive thing provides more incentive and motivation to try to learn, so that I won't have wasted my money/time, etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbin Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 "Are you gonna go out and buy a $3,000 guitar as a starter?" Cept for PHP is free.... I guess what you really meant was... Why bother putting the effort in to learn how the PHP engine works and how Apache works if you just abandon PHP? I guess I didn't look at it that way. I was assuming that the drive to learn PHP was strong enough to survive a small challenge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannyb785 Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 "Are you gonna go out and buy a $3,000 guitar as a starter?" Cept for PHP is free.... I guess what you really meant was... Why bother putting the effort in to learn how the PHP engine works and how Apache works if you just abandon PHP? I guess I didn't look at it that way. I was assuming that the drive to learn PHP was strong enough to survive a small challenge. you're right... php is free. But is a dedicated server(or vps?)? helllll no. I'm not comparing php to a $3,000 guitar. I'm comparing paying $50-$100 a month on something you don't even know to a $3,000 guitar. Of course the money is much more, but you're still paying a high, an unnecessary, premium just to learn something. Lesson learned: buy cheap webspace, learn php in an out, then when you have a succesfull idea for a website(or perhaps can afford to shell out more money), THEN you upgrade the server. How about you learn how to ride a bike before you learn how to build one(weird example, but you should get the idea) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel0 Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 Well honestly... aptitude install apache2 mysql-server libapache2-mod-php5 And you've got yourself a LAMP on a Debian server. How more simple can it be? I'd argue it's simpler than, on Windows, going to some website, downloading a WAMP bundle package, double clicking the installer file. Going through a series of steps where you have to answer various questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.josh Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 Well honestly... aptitude install apache2 mysql-server libapache2-mod-php5 And you've got yourself a LAMP on a Debian server. How more simple can it be? I'd argue it's simpler than, on Windows, going to some website, downloading a WAMP bundle package, double clicking the installer file. Going through a series of steps where you have to answer various questions. Well I think what people meant by "install" was learning what all settings there are, what they do, how to change them, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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