other languages

[Ninjakreborn]

Is php more powerful than most languages.

I set down and played with a few of the languages below, and I liked the syntax on perl, a lot, and I played with the java ideas some.  I noticed it wouldn't be that hard to pick up other languages after php, but I wanted to know something.

1 time I heard of someone building a cms in c++, making the website cms 10 times more powerful than php(that's what they said).
If this is so, would any of the following languages help me in the world of web development
perl, java, json, c+, C++, C#, .net

I was also really wondering something else

What languages go into building console games, like For instance Xbox, playstation, ps2, ps3, x-box360, gamecude, dreamcase
What languages are used to build all of those


and computer games, what languages are used to build those

when I got the godfather for the x-box, limited edition, I heard something, they were speaking of the black hand control scheme, the idea they used behind the controls.  The programmer said from a programming stand point that was hard to program, what kind of languages go into console games.

What about servers as well, like for instance the online games world of warcraft, fairlyand, supreme destiny, conquer online, ex-cetera, what languages are used to make those, and to build, and mantain the servers they run on?

[ober]

A CMS can take on many different forms.  The only way I can see a C++ CMS being more powerful than PHP is if the CMS interacts with the actual server.  PHP can interact with the server in some ways, but not quite as easily as C++.  "10 times more powerful" is kind of a BS statement meant to inflate one's ego, IMHO.

The other languages are just other tools you can use... they're not going to make your presence much bigger unless you develop something like server software.  Also, c+ doesn't exist and .net is not a language.. it's a framework.  Java is also tricky because the server has to have a Java framework and has to be running something like Tomcat to serve JSPs if that's the route you want to go.

I have no idea about consoles... many PC games are in C++.

[obsidian]

Console gaming is typically done in C or C++ (depending on if it's the graphics engines or the general game engine itself). As consoles and PCs are getting faster and faster, though, there's really little to no need to worry about the speed of running C vs. C++ anymore. I have recently read up on several corporate sites who are hiring programmers (Activision, Nintendo, Capcom, etc), and in each case, they required a strong knowledge and 5+ years' experience with C++ development.

As ober says, each language has their own strengths and weaknesses. You basically have to know what you're going to be working on and choose the best language to complete the task. Put it this way: there are very few things that can be done in one language that cannot be duplicated in another, but typically, one will reign supreme when it comes to speed and optimization for a specific type of code. A great developer is one that has an understanding of all the different aspects and can recognize and acknowledge when another language would be a better fit for the current project.

[Ninjakreborn]

so C+ isn't a language.

So would it be possible for me to study C++
for building games, and still do websites.

Or is building games something different, one person can sit down within a timeframe and build any website
but can someone sit down a program a game, as a 1 person, or does that have to be a huge team effort, with a huge budget?

[Daniel0]

Yeah, C++ is a language.

[ober]

You can build a game... but don't expect to crank out WoW or Battlefield2... or anything complicated.  You need designers, audio people, physics people, etc, etc.  It's not just for loops and array manipulation.

And you can study whatever you want... knock yourself out.

[Ninjakreborn]

What is json then
is it something that is worth learning

and I was asking about c+, I had heard of it before, it must be short for c++, or that must be what they mean when they say it.

[ober]

http://www.json.org/

Maybe you should do some of your own research before asking questions about languages you have no idea about?

http://www.baetzler.de/humor/c_more_or_less.html - c+ is a joke.

[Ninjakreborn]

ah ok, so I looked up on json, and saw python and checked on it.  In the world of web development would htey be worth learning, or can I do all the same things with php, What would those 2 actually be better at.

[ober]

I can't vouch for python or json... never used either. 

Look... you have to understand something.  If you can make something work with one language... why not keep using that language?  You'd be further ahead to master one language and then look elsewhere when you NEED to squeeze microseconds off of your processing time or you run into something that your current language can't do. 

It's like this... I can put a penny in my toolbox and probably use it to unscrew quite a few flat-head screws.  But if I have a screwdriver that does the same thing but it's easier for me to use, why would I use the penny??

[Ninjakreborn]

Well I am not worried about learning them, I was just trying to clarify some background information on them.

ALl the languages I looked at so far, for awhile, I saw that it would take some time to memorize syntax, and there all about the same.

I looked at a ruby on rails framework, and I actually quite easily understood it, so ruby isn't harder to learn than php.

I have actually started up some basic asp, jsp,and coldfusion for fun.  No I don't intend to learn really, anything other than my current language, but I am learning About, the general ideas behind other languages, just for personal knowledge purposes.  Also some basic syntax, with stuff like asp, jsp, I didn't mess with them much, but I did start basic form validation and processing, and it was no harder than doing it with php, just something fun I was doing when I had some spare time. 

OTher languages, like flash for instance, I am going to learn it later, I might start dabbling with C++, or C# as a hobby.

Just mostly stuff for fun, for now, and see where that kind of stuff takes me.

JSON, and Python, I have heard a lot of good things about.

As for ruby on rails, I am 100% I am going to attempt using a few ruby on rails frameworks, and see how those sites come together, for experimental purposes, it wouldn't be that hard to work out, and do custom programming on, once I pick up a little ruby.

[obsidian]

as for game development, again, as ober said, sure, you could write one up yourself, but there's a TON involved that most people setting out to do a game may never think of. first, you've got to determine if you're going to do a 2D or 3D game... not just in the way that Commander Keen was 2D and Quake is 3D, but rather, are you going to try to use 3D graphics like Tekken or 2D like Street Fighter Alpha? based on these decisions, you've got to come up with a solution to what type of rendering you want to use and what graphics engine you'll use (not to mention how to implement it). before all that comes up, you've got to determine a genre of game and a decent story or at least description of what you're wanting to accomplish. then, you're faced with level design, graphic art, character design, textures, maps, background art, etc, etc. each of these is typically tackled by different parts of the team (unless you have some extraordinarilly talented individuals). so, in short, if you're tackling a game by yourself, expect to spend years doing one... and we didn't even get into programming the game engine itself yet ;)

as for C+, yes, ober is correct once again about it being a joke, however C# is a valid language that may be worth your time checking out, too. as for this comment:
[quote]
I looked at a ruby on rails framework, and I actually quite easily understood it, so ruby isn't harder to learn than php.
[/quote]
there are a few things you're missing: Ruby on Rails is not a language. ruby is a language that is ported to web in the guise of the [i]Rails[/i] framework. it is extremely powerful, quite friendly to learn, and it does have its own strengths as well, but being understood easily and not harder to learn that php depends entirely on what you were looking at. ruby can be an incredibly in-depth language, and it can be a great challenge to learn if you're not careful. python is the same way. the biggest challenge from someone moving from C++, PHP or another similar language to Python or Ruby is the syntax. there are so many nuances that are different that i find myself having parse errors right and left because i attempt to end a line with a semicolon or the like.

your comment about "other languages" above also stumped me a bit. flash is not a language. actionscript is a scripting language used by flash, but if you're developing flash presentations in version 8, you can use javascript instead anyway. basically, if you know javascript syntax, you can pick up actionscript extremely quickly. the biggest challenge is learning all the functions and restrictions within frames and scenes in flash.

keep in mind that the mark of a good developer is not necessarily how many languages you currently know, it's how quickly you can adapt and learn the new language when the need arises. if you're working for a company that decides to move from JSP to PHP, are you going to be able to learn it fast enough, or are you going to be kicked to the curb? along this same vein is how you need to view your programming knowledge. forget the technicals of the languages (ie, syntax) for just a moment and examine your understanding of overal programming techniques. do you have a thorough grasp of OOP? do you understand the principles of obfuscating your code so the end user doesn't have to dig through it all to use your functions and/or classes? if not, you really ought to focus your energies on learning the principles before you worry about specifically targeting languages. these are the principles that can and should be applied to all programming languages you tackle, and once you have them, learning to apply syntax and spacing restrictions to those same principles will be a piece of cake.

[Ninjakreborn]

Ah, thanks that was very helpful.  I have, as of yet been putting off OOP, until a few more programming concepts come to me, some specific programming related structures still mystify me.  For instance a classified ad system, the logic behind it always confused me, but when I built 2 smaller ones, I now understand how they work, and there not that hard to program

Cms I am still understanding the concept for, as for right now, all I can really do along the lines of a cms, is something like create a table called the name of the page, an id, header and text, and allow them to add/edit/delete sections of text from a page.  Now there is one main one I am trying to learn, I feel after I do it, which is making a cms for moondancedesign.com in my spare time. I need to allow her to add/remove pictures, but that also involves creating a page for it to show the image along wtih pricing information, plus putting it in the right gallery, plus created a seperate page with the paypal form for submitting, adn dynamically create all of that, or delete all of that, based on whether she enters a new one or deletes one.  IT's going to be huge, but when I have time, and when I do it, then cms's themselves will be understood by me.

AS far as the other languages, I am not tackling anything now, and the advice you gave was appreciated, that will help me a lot in the future.

I am goign to learn some more programming concepts, get better at photoshop, design layout, graphic design, and content writing.  Then I will move onto learning oop, and classes, and other stuff like that.  I still have a lot of problems with advanced file handling, it's just a learning process, I am taking it one step at a time and seeing how it goes.  I have learnt a lot, I have learnt that I may not know everything I want, but I can slowly learning, so I am working on it.
With the other advanced languages, I will look through some, and play with them

And what was this about doing flash with javascript????

[obsidian]

about flash and javascript: there are a lot of controls that can be handled via javascript within the flash 8 environment. i still highly recommend you take the plunge and learn actionscript2 if you're going to be doing much with flash, but what's really cool is that you can write javascript plugins for the actual Flash 8 program itself

[Ninjakreborn]

See The thing with graphic design, and layout design, once I get more experience ,I will start getting better, I was wondering if flash is the same way, or is flash for like a master graphic designer or something.  I mean doing flash intro's I don't normally try them but I wsa going to eventually create a flash only site just for fun.

[obsidian]

[quote author=businessman332211 link=topic=110237.msg445367#msg445367 date=1159807296]
See The thing with graphic design, and layout design, once I get more experience ,I will start getting better, I was wondering if flash is the same way, or is flash for like a master graphic designer or something.  I mean doing flash intro's I don't normally try them but I wsa going to eventually create a flash only site just for fun.
[/quote]

there are two aspects to flash... design and actionscript. i know very few really good designers who have taken the time to learn actionscript. the benifit of learning both is the supreme control of the environment settings and even sharing library objects to save filesize of your SWF files. yes, it's usually the great designers that do great stuff in flash, but here at work, we have designers that lay out the timeline and come up with all the images, but we developers actually code all the "stuff" that makes it work... hmm... sounds a lot like coming up with a good web site, doesn't it? ;)

[Ninjakreborn]

yes, I finally got some help.  A friend of a friend named ritesh, he has been doing graphic design/flash for almost 7 years total.  He has told me that half the fact of doing what I want
which is just doing layouts, logo's, buttons, banners, and intermediate photo manipulation, is learning the program
he said over time my creativity, and natural design skills would increase over itme, so I am going to start trying to tackle stuff.  I am finishing up programming right now.

I want to learn the programming side of flash first, then maybe the design later, after I naturally get better.
I like flash.  Some of my favorite sites are totally done in flash, the way they look and interact.

[.josh]

You need to at least learn the basics of the design part of flash first. The whole point of actionscript is making your design more interactive and have more advanced properties, like "gravity" effects, etc... Actionscript is useless if you don't know how to make shapes and symbols and work with the timeline and layers. 

If you really want to get into flash, then play around with the design first.  Get to know the timeline and manipulating it, and layers and masks and stuff.  Get to know your drawing tools.  Get to know the properties for each one.  Do some basic animation and then work your way up from there.  Make a button or 2 that jumps to a different frame.  Make a simple dropdown menu. 

My 2 cents.

[obsidian]

very true, CV. if you can't open up a new stage and create some motion tweens and stuff on your own, there's no sense in learning actionscript as it is intended to simply manipulate those movies you've already created. like i mentioned before, that's why i work hand-in-hand with the flash designers for our presentations. he does all the heavy work (actually does the entire presentation using only tweens), and then i tear it apart and optimize it as much as possible using AS.

as CV suggests, you've really got to start out with the basics of drawing and manual manipulation of objects and movie clips before you get into the actionscript. when you're ready, jump over to http://www.actionscript.org and http://www.kirupa.com to get some pretty great reading on actionscript tutorials.

[.josh]

ha! kirupa.com! that was the first place i ever went to when i first got into flash! awesome place! haven't been there in years. I wonder if they are still doing that pixel town project?

[obsidian]

[quote author=Crayon Violent link=topic=110237.msg445442#msg445442 date=1159811799]
ha! kirupa.com! that was the first place i ever went to when i first got into flash! awesome place! haven't been there in years. I wonder if they are still doing that pixel town project?
[/quote]

haven't seen much on the pixel town in a while, but they've still kept pretty up to date with flash versions and stuff. very nice resource. usually my first hit with questions on flash... :D

update... still very much alive is the [url=http://www.kirupa.com/lab/kville/index.htm]kirupaville pixel town[/url]! very cool stuff

[.josh]

yay pixel town! I almost decided to submit something for it a whiles back. But I just didn't feel my skills were good enough :(

[Ninjakreborn]

Ok, so after I finish what I am studying, I will move over into learning the flash portion of it, and what you said, before getting into actionscript, thanks for the guidance.

[.josh]

but i thought due to a recent revelation, you were going to leave the design part alone and concentrate on the coding? I still think you are spreading yourself too thin. People keep telling you it's better to be really good at one or two things than try to learn everything.  And I can tell you from firsthand experience the truthfulness of this.  But I can afford to do that cuz I'm not trying to make a career out of any of it. Can you say the same?

[Ninjakreborn]

I might be making a career out of it yet, but as far as expanding.  I have a specific set of goals.  Those are the goals I am seeking.  As of right now, I have the things I know, and the things I am studying, the flash, actionscript, and whatever else I am not currently touching.  I am working on studying specific things at the moment, and in time, if I feel that my skills in those things grow enough, I slowly start taking on new ones, until I match what I originally wanted to know, and then at that point, i step back and see my options.