New site, after feedback and criticsm

[crmamx]

A couple of other things.

I started using tables as one of the better tutorials used them and that was how the site began.

 

Any tutorial that teaches the use of tables for anything except displaying data you need to skip.

 

I strongly recommend that you read the link to the post that gizmola gave you. It is the perfect outline for creating an updated and decent (I won't say professional) site.

 

And here is the best there is for css: http://cssfreakie.blogspot.com/

 

Personally, I think you owe him an apology. But even lacking one, he will help you all he can.

 

Good luck.

[stevengreen22]

Alot of what everyone has said has made a great deal of sense.

 

I've started having a play about with some code that was available online,I'm not working on the main site as thats to be handed in tomorrow and I dont want to screw it over before then, so I've got a "new site" folder to play with wherer i've copied across the user log files and soon.

 

So, I've started and yes the css does make a great deal more sense than the inline coding mess i was fooling aound with, its painful to think how many hours i wasted but the positive is the php i picked up.

 

http://webdesignprofessionals.co.uk/new_site/index.php

 

I'm ONLY asking for opinions on the menu bar   I'm very new to floating etc.  What I've done works but I don't 'feel' it's the best 'practice'for it.

I've set the first nav to 50% float left, the second to 50% and float right, within the ul is the php echo file for the user log.

 

<div id="navigation">
    		<ul>
		<li><a href="#">Home</a></li>
		<li><a href="#">About</a></li>
		<li><a href="#">Services</a></li>
		<li><a href="#">Contact us</a></li>
		</ul>
	</div>
        <div id="navigation2">
    		<ul>
		<li><?php echo $toplinks ?></li>

		</ul>
	</div>

 

Right? wrong? tolerable?

Thanks again

[cssfreakie]

I like the display inline on the <li>'s of your horizontal menu, it's very efficient indeed, where did you get that from  It looks so familiar. Although setting the ul to display block, is kinda odd. and you might want to set a min-width on your wrapper, to prevent the site from getting squeezed.

[stevengreen22]

Just [posted a weak attempt at an apology before reading this post.

 

http://www.maxdesign.com.au/articles/css-layouts/two-liquid/ - it was posted in one of the other firums, I can take no credi for the design or block that was there for me.  I just wanted to see if I could include the php files like I wanted to, i was impressed that it renders as well as it does.

 

I didn;t know any other way to try and get them both on the same line, I tested the 'clear' method but couldn;t make it work so i set them both to 50% instead.  It just ...feels...like i did it wrong or cheated somehow.

 

As for the graphics...I'm going to use stock block colours until the site has the...structure and then tidy it hopefully with the help of this graphic dude/

[cssfreakie]

Well i know you didn't come up with that display:inline, because it's pretty sneaky, and not many people seem to know it exists, but it's indeed a very good way to make a horizontal menu which i use myself. in fact i wrote a similar article on it, (that's why i said hey that looks familiar )

Also setting up 2 times 50% can be a problem in case you add a border. Just try it and you will see, that the divs push each other of the line.

 

Now you cheated a little, because you added extra div's around the <ul> which were not needed.

this could have been done too:

#navigation ul {
    background: #333333;
    float: left;
    margin: 0;
    padding: 0;
    width: 50%;
}

But again you may say who gives a crap, i used 2 extra div's...indeed i don't give a crap

Good luck

[stevengreen22]

I should've copr to this site first before starting the project....the number of hours wasted....

 

I'm impressed with how much easier it is to work with the code.  I se what yo mean about the border, I suppose to solve that you'd then need to compensate for the size of the border but that could get messy.  I noticed when I put it into practive (couldn't resist olaying with main site) it placed inself in front of my wonderful logo.

used

.text_line
{
clear:both;
margin-bottom:2px;
}

from w3schools to solve with a 'space' as the text, again I think this may be a work-arund as opposed ot the way but it's just getting the hang of it. (just had a flashback from an old film with bruce lee, no retreat, no surrender where the dude tells him to empty the glass.must empty glass!!!

 

I tried what you said but it didn't display correctly, by adding what you wrote it made the links display but no bar, no blcoks etc, it disregarded the rest, i think it's likely because i'm misunderstanding.

if i knock off the ul div then how will it know its an ul? Gah, feel 'special' for not understanding.

 

...how do it make the width happy?  SHoudl i use the whitespace to create the gap or....if i created a new ul2 that floated from the other side but was used within the same div...woudl that work...?

 

Here comes the hours of testing / destroying / rebuilding / learning / crying - repeat/

[cssfreakie]

I recommend you continue this in the css forum, btw, you site is completely differently, and your focus more on css.

In order to structure things i think that is best for you.

 

As far as what i meant with the <ul> leave the <Ul> in there, but remove the div around it the same is for your right menu. Copy the styles they have though and give them to the <ul> instead.

 

this is what you have:

<div id="navigation">
    		<ul>
		<li><a href="#">Home</a></li>
		<li><a href="#">About</a></li>
		<li><a href="#">Services</a></li>
		<li><a href="#">Contact us</a></li>
          </ul>
</div>

 

while it could have been this with the properties i gave before.

    		<ul id="navigation">
		<li><a href="#">Home</a></li>
		<li><a href="#">About</a></li>
		<li><a href="#">Services</a></li>
		<li><a href="#">Contact us</a></li>
         </ul>

Notice though the styles you assign in your style sheet have the selector of that div... so if you do the above make it an <ul> if that make sense, if not I really recommend to read upon Selectors classes and ID's, in fact i wrote something about it....

 

as far as that newline clear thing from w3fools.com i have no idea what you mean, and it's probably bad. without even seeing it. So rephrase that precise question and post it in the css forum in the hope some friendly people arrive and understand what you say and help out.

 

_edit: ps, the time you used is not wasted it takes time to learn things and find your way in to something. If you still feel you wasted your time, i recommend to buy good books and skip all online tutorials because they all jump in assuming you know the basics.

[stevengreen22]

Now it makes perfect sense, i didn't use the ul at the start of the div, the penny drops!

 

I read a lot of you site, I have an idea about classes and id, not so much selectors.  this is the first real look I've had at css, before i just thought it was an easy way to store margins and font sizes.  this is...It's almos the reverse of what i was doing, instead of shaping it in the code,it's happening in the css instead. 

 

I should've made that clearer, I wasted time that couldve been spent learnign more relevant material but i dont regret the experience, Before the site i had virtually no idea, now i know to use css.  and i can play with php, mysql and have made a forum - go team me!

 

I will get a couple of books and read through the css forum, after tomorrow the site will be played with, i have to focus on math exam soon to though so may sit back a bit and work on that.

If you hang around here i'll post updates for opinoins and so on.

 

I gather you dont like w3?  why?  It's a resource that has been mentioned frequently and if its...lacking then I'd rather not spend any time there.

 

The scenarioshould be....

 

the div overlapped my logo which is still in its table in a sep file.  to solve it i used

 

.text_line
{
    clear:both;
    margin: 0 auto;
}

and

<div class="text_line"> </div>

 

This made it look how it did to start with but again i think it might not be the 'proper' way of doing it.  i found thsi info at w3.

I jsut spent a good 30 mins on that css, I'll be reading and watching different learnign materials as theres loads i don't know.

 

I think there must be conflicting info as i tried what you said and it still didn;t work, still, it gives me sometign to work from tomorrow. will start a clean slate, use that reset.css to start with and build from there.

ona  side note, the firebug prog has been a huge help.

 

 

[KevinM1]

w3schools is filled with inaccurate information.  Click on the link in my signature for more details on that.  They also neglect to discuss best practices.  For some languages, like JavaScript,, what they show is the exact opposite of how the language should be coded.  I'm not exaggerating when I say that myself and the other staff can tell when a member has 'learned' from w3schools.  The same kinds of gross misunderstanding happens across the board.

 

You're better off with other resources.  We have several sticky threads in our sub-forums with links to good alternatives.

[stevengreen22]

wow, thats quite an important point.  One of the guys is class is heavily into them, I'll show him your link before any damage might be done.  I'm avoiding using Jscript this year, theres a small bit on my forum page but that came from someone far more intelligent than I.

 

We're starting with J next year which I'm looking forward to but before I do I'm going to really look into the the css way of building sites and hopefully develop some skils.  I really was barking up the wrong tree before.

 

 

 

 

[Maq]

We're starting with J next year which I'm looking forward to but before I do I'm going to really look into the the css way of building sites and hopefully develop some skils.  I really was barking up the wrong tree before.

Good idea.  CSS is a much better approach

[stevengreen22]

thanks, thanks to the guys in here who hammered it home too.

[dadamssg87]

you might also want to work in the Firefox browser and download the Web Developer add-on. You can pull up the css and edit it in real time. No editing a single aspect->saving->refreshing your page. It'd be more, edit-multiple-aspects->see-change-immediately then once you're happy with all that your done, save and refresh.

[stevengreen22]

Thats an awesome tool, thanks.  Was always a chore having to amend, save, upload, check, edit, rinse, repeat.

thanks

[iPixel]

Dont get upset but i'll step in defense of cssfreakie because i've seen him post many great critiques throughout the forum all of which were helpfull.

You have to understand, he wasnt being mean but as a web proffessional it's completely understandable why he ripped the website apart. It's like having a car and claiming it's the most luxusious thing in the world and when people see it all the get is http://britfa.gs/mph/src/124993671857.jpg

That's not to say your website is that bad I'm just stating a point. As a web professional it's hard not to take it personally when a page claims to be so and then lacks what's expected of such stature that's just my opinion, im not saying cssfreakie reacted this way for that reason. But i just hope you understand.

 

Now if i may give some insight on the website layout itself...

 

1. I'd really get rid of that background, it cheapens the website.

 

2. Try and make better use of the space, it seems just a little bit all over the place especially with the navigation, there's like 4 different parts and I dont think people enjoy having to search for menu items.

 

I see you're making changes and i feel it's a good progress but there's more to be done.

 

Outside of that the pages load quickly, everything seems smooth no issues there. It's really the design that seems to be your challenge here.

 

Good Luck, and in the future please keep an open mind... an opinion is an opinion and you should never take it personally, that is the profession we chose and opinions are obstacles we must deal with.

[KevinM1]

Please refrain from posting in threads that haven't seen activity in more than a month.