Opera converts unite!

[.josh]

I agree with ober.  A bug that hasn't been fixed for years is at the "undocumented feature" status, soon to be a "browser-sepecific documented feature."

[neylitalo]

[quote author=ober link=topic=111547.msg452580#msg452580 date=1161004227]
yay!  FF is becoming like IE.

Finally something that'll push users to Opera.  :)
[/quote]

I think it was the fact that Firefox had a nasty habit of... umm... not showing me the correct web page that pushed me to Opera. And the fact that it has the great majority of the Firefox Web Developer's toolbar built-in, along with many other things.

Ober, you've made a convert out of me. :)

[redbullmarky]

[quote author=neylitalo link=topic=111547.msg452783#msg452783 date=1161027234]
Ober, you've made a convert out of me. :)
[/quote]
and almost me too. Might as well call it Obera for all the work you've done to convince people around these parts (ok, that was lame :) ).
FF still my weapon of choice. Opera second place on both PC and Mac (after Safari).

With the ability to change the scrollbars (IE) and the autoscroll (FF), I wonder how long it takes for MySpace to launch MyBrowser where you can customise the whole shebang beyond comprehension? (if that idea ever takes off, please remember - you heard it here first. I think)

[.josh]

you know, i just downloaded opera today. I finally decided to once and for all see what the big deal is.  To be honest, I'm really not that impressed.  Their Widget downloads consist almost entirely of clocks and games. And i do not notice any kind of load improvement from FF, though to be fair, I am on a 6mbps cable connect.

I will however say that I think the "remember the page((s) - if you have several tabbed) you were last looking at" feature is pretty cool.

maybe ober and/or someone else can come mention some good widgets and also make a case why i should [i]really[/i] convert to opera from FF.

[neylitalo]

Well, to be completely and entirely honest, I haven't seen too many really useful widgets. I think they're just as you said - clocks and games and other fun things. But then again, I haven't rooted through all of them, so I can't really speak for all of them.

And I'll let ober make the "you should use Opera" argument. :)

[ober]

Alright... my take:

1) F the widgets.  They're the most useless feature I've seen them add.  Use Yahoo Widgets (formerly Konfabulator).

2) Context menu.  Need I say more?  (oh, and it's editable)

3) THE WAND

4) Skins... let's face it, the default Opera skin blows.  So does the default configuration of the buttons.  I'll take a screenie and post mine if you want a nice, clean orientation.  I'll let you choose your own skin, as there are several good ones.  I love blue button 1.1 and meguiddo 1-4.

5) little x's on the tabs

6) quick download in the context menu... again... the context menu rules

7) fast forward ... fast rewind.  Don't use them all the time, but much more handy as I get used to them.

8) mouse gestures... handy, but I don't use them often.

9) speed... definately faster all around and proven by TONS of benchmarks.

10) cached "back" action.  No waiting for the page to reload.  You it back and it's almost instantly back to where you were.

11) super custom... no other browser lets you customize the interface like Opera.

12) standards compliant... no other browser comes close

13) download manager rules and you can manage bittorrent downloads with it!

14) By far the best keyboard reactive browser on the market.

Need I go on?  Because I will.

[neylitalo]

Hm... I haven't encountered this context menu you speak of, where is it? A Google search doesn't turn up anything useful, either...

[.josh]

i think he's talking about the menu that pops out from the left edge of the browser.

[neylitalo]

ah, ok - cool. I'll have to find a way to make it more useful for me. As it stands, it's not really of that much use, but as ober said, it's customizable, so I'll have to do some juggling and see what I can do.

[ober]

Umm... I was talking about the right-click menu.  That's called a context menu.

By the way, if the built in web developer type stuff isn't good enough, check the resources thread in Website Critique for an Opera "extension" that is super handy.

[Daniel0]

[quote author=ober link=topic=111547.msg452847#msg452847 date=1161036848]
1) F the widgets.  They're the most useless feature I've seen them add.  Use Yahoo Widgets (formerly Konfabulator).
[/quote]
Firefox has extensions as well, but they are useful.

[quote author=ober link=topic=111547.msg452847#msg452847 date=1161036848]
2) Context menu.  Need I say more?  (oh, and it's editable)
[/quote]
What about it?

[quote author=ober link=topic=111547.msg452847#msg452847 date=1161036848]
3) THE WAND
[/quote]
Useless for me as I prefer to type it in myself.

[quote author=ober link=topic=111547.msg452847#msg452847 date=1161036848]
4) Skins... let's face it, the default Opera skin blows.  So does the default configuration of the buttons.  I'll take a screenie and post mine if you want a nice, clean orientation.  I'll let you choose your own skin, as there are several good ones.  I love blue button 1.1 and meguiddo 1-4.
[/quote]
I better like a simple skin like Firefox' and Firefox has several skins to download as well.

[quote author=ober link=topic=111547.msg452847#msg452847 date=1161036848]
5) little x's on the tabs
[/quote]
I believe Firefox 2.0 has that.

[quote author=ober link=topic=111547.msg452847#msg452847 date=1161036848]
6) quick download in the context menu... again... the context menu rules
[/quote]
?

[quote author=ober link=topic=111547.msg452847#msg452847 date=1161036848]
7) fast forward ... fast rewind.  Don't use them all the time, but much more handy as I get used to them.
[/quote]
Ok, I guess that could be useful.

[quote author=ober link=topic=111547.msg452847#msg452847 date=1161036848]
8) mouse gestures... handy, but I don't use them often.
[/quote]
Could be useful, but there is an extension for Firefox to do that.

[quote author=ober link=topic=111547.msg452847#msg452847 date=1161036848]
9) speed... definately faster all around and proven by TONS of benchmarks.
[/quote]
I don't see any difference.

[quote author=ober link=topic=111547.msg452847#msg452847 date=1161036848]
10) cached "back" action.  No waiting for the page to reload.  You it back and it's almost instantly back to where you were.
[/quote]
Firefox got that as well.

[quote author=ober link=topic=111547.msg452847#msg452847 date=1161036848]
11) super custom... no other browser lets you customize the interface like Opera.
[/quote]
There is one that does that: Firefox

[quote author=ober link=topic=111547.msg452847#msg452847 date=1161036848]
12) standards compliant... no other browser comes close
[/quote]
Based comparisons between Presto and Gecko on Wikipedia I think it is very close between these two layout engines. I can't tell if Presto or Gecko is the best one though.

[quote author=ober link=topic=111547.msg452847#msg452847 date=1161036848]
13) download manager rules and you can manage bittorrent downloads with it!
[/quote]
I don't see what is so good about it. Bittorrent support is fine I guess, but I do not use that.

[quote author=ober link=topic=111547.msg452847#msg452847 date=1161036848]
14) By far the best keyboard reactive browser on the market.
[/quote]
What do you mean?

[quote author=ober link=topic=111547.msg452847#msg452847 date=1161036848]
Need I go on?  Because I will.
[/quote]
Yeah, just do that :P

Tomorrow I will use Opera the entire day and see if it is that good. In fact I have used Opera before, but I went away from it because I thought Firefox was better.

[ober]

You're allowed to have your opinions and I wasn't really asking anyone to compare that list to FF.  However:

1) Widgets are not "extensions".  The widgets are not a functionality as much as they are an added tool.  Some WOULD find them useful, I do not because I use different software to find the same means.

2) If you don't understand what I'm saying or what I'm talking about, then please don't comment.  It just provides a lot more functionality than any other right-click menu I've ever seen in a browser.

3) Yay for you.

4) That doesn't make much sense, but suffice it to say that Opera's skin manager is much easier to use.

5) Too bad FF 2.0 isn't even out in a public final version.

6) Right-click on item, select "quick download"... and it saves it to your specified folder and even handles things that are named similarly.

7) Yeah

8) Yay... an extension.  Notice how you have to download a bunch of extensions for things that are already built into Opera?  That's what drives me insane.

9) Keep using Opera... you'll see it.

10) FF is more like IE when you go back... more often than not, there is a noticeable delay.  With Opera, it's almost instant.

11) Again, there are things about the FF interface that you cannot customize that you can in Opera.

12) Have you run the ACID test in your beloved FF?  It falls flat on it's face.

13) If you don't see what's so good about it, you haven't used it long enough or played with the options for it.  Not only does it pop up in another tab instead of opening another window, but it handles downloads in a friendlier manner.  I'm not even sure if FF allows you to pause and resume downloads.

14) Examples: A lot of times I'll go to a page and want to find a specific word.  All I do is hit the period key and start typing and it jumps right to the word.  There are also shortcuts to jump between tabs, ways to find links quickly on a page and all sorts of nifty other shortcuts built into the keyboard.

Another thing I also wanted to point out was the zoom features, bookmark shortcuts (tie a letter to a bookmark and all you have to do is punch that letter or phrase into the address bar and go), and the MOST useful thing I've seen to date which I failed to mention before?  PASTE AND GO!  BRILLIANT!

[.josh]

FF lets you pause/resume downloads.

I will agree that Opera's skin/widget download/install is bar far superior to FF.  You click the download button and it automatically installs and changes it, and then asks you if you wanna keep it. If you say no, it makes it go away.  With FF it's download it and then restart the browser and if you don't like it then go uninstall it.

I will also agree that the .searchforword in Opera is pretty cool. Though come one, CTRL+F is just as easy.

[Daniel0]

Ok... "Opera Day". Let's see if it is as good as you claim.

[ober]

You have to give it a fair shot though.  Don't go into it with an extreme bias or you won't agree with me on anything.

[Daniel0]

It has actually been quite good untill now. I've noticed that there is no delay when going back/forward and I've noticed a speed improvement, but I miss the functionality of the extensions I have installed in Firefox. The mouse gestures are great as well.

[ober]

What functionality?  Maybe I can unlock some hidden treasures for you :)

[Daniel0]

The following extensions are the most important:
[url=https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/249/]Html Validator[/url] - Validates pages and accessibility. Shows a little icon in the corner and points out in "view source" where the errors are.
[url=https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/966/]Tamper Data[/url] - It enables you to modify everything you send on each request.
[url=https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/575/]Header Monitor[/url] - Enables you to see all headers on the pages.
[url=http://pearlcrescent.com/products/pagesaver/]Pearl Crescent Page Saver[/url] - It saves a screenshot of the visible portion of a webpage or the entire page.

More info on the links.

[Daniel0]

Man...!!! It was good in Windows, but in Linux many webpages look wierd. It's like things are all too small. Another strange thing is that in the Linux version there is a skin called Windows native ::)

[ober]

For validation: Right-click->Validate... couldn't be easier.
For 2 and 3, try the "plugin" I noted before in the Resources thread in Website Critique.  It opens up a TON of information on webpages.
For the last one... I don't know of something in Opera that will do that.

[Daniel0]

Hmm... This is what I'm gonna do: On Windows I will use Opera for "normal" things, and when I need my extensions I will open up Firefox. On Linux I will continue to use Firefox as I think Opera suck on Linux.

[ober]

:)  Excellent!  Another convert.  And yeah, I can't speak for Opera on Linux.

[neylitalo]

It seems to work fine for me, under Gentoo Linux - Daniel0, what problems specifically are you having?

And maybe we should split this topic to a new "Opera" thread? We're getting a bit off-base from the original topic.

[ober]

Good idea.  Done.

[Daniel0]

[quote author=neylitalo link=topic=111547.msg453833#msg453833 date=1161184360]It seems to work fine for me, under Gentoo Linux - Daniel0, what problems specifically are you having?[/quote]
It seems like it renders things too small or perhaps the margins and paddings don't work correct.

[quote author=ober link=topic=111912.msg453816#msg453816 date=1161183042]:)  Excellent!  Another convert.  And yeah, I can't speak for Opera on Linux.[/quote]
Partial convert ;)