aztec Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 HelloI posted yesterday in the Ajax forum and "tomfmason" provided me with some good advice and direction, but json is still javascript and can be turned off.I am creating a site with some 1000 pages and maybe 950 will be created from one template.Basically I need to update the data only and not the page for most of the time. I thought Ajax may be the answer untill it was pointed out to me that between 10% and 15% of people turn off Javascript.Is there another language that cannot be turned off that can update the webpage without reloading? or is there a technique that can be used with say, PHP or other language that can do the same thing, update the data without a refresh.I am doing as much research as possible between breaks from the boring stuff of inputting data into a MySQL database.Kind Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbullmarky Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 as far as I know, Flash is your only other option other than AJAX... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ober Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 I think the numbers are actually much less than 10-15% less than that and it's getting to the point where so many sites use JS to achieve some effect that most designers are throwing caution to the wind and using it.I would suggest that you're probably safe to use it. If nothing else, put a disclaimer on the site about JS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.josh Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 [quote author=redbullmarky link=topic=124004.msg513285#msg513285 date=1169744575]as far as I know, Flash is your only other option other than AJAX...[/quote]but you can disable/not download a flash object too, so it's in the same boat as js. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztec Posted January 25, 2007 Author Share Posted January 25, 2007 Thanks for your input.Ober, from your reply I take that you would bite the bullet and use Ajax. Would you consider making any provision for non javascript users? (given the number of pages using js) other than telling people to turn on js,Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcombs_31 Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 you'll be creating a lot more work on your part to get your site to work with or without javascript. I say just use it if you want and put a disclaimer as ober said. But I guess more importantly, why are you so concerned about a page refresh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztec Posted January 25, 2007 Author Share Posted January 25, 2007 Regarding page refresh.With some 950 pages out of about a 1000 being idendtical except for the data I considered that to just udate the data would be the best way. Plus then I would for example only have say 51 pages to the site. Is there a better way?Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ober Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 Like jcombs, I'd just use AJAX and take the risk that few users are daft enough to have JS turned off.I'm really confused about the type of site you are running and why you think you'd need to create 950 pages without this dynamic refresh portion. Can you explain what the site is for and what it does? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztec Posted January 25, 2007 Author Share Posted January 25, 2007 Certainly.It is a family history website and involves my own family plus the family history of 8 more families who married into my family.The site would be based on for example a family treemaker type presentation so that by clicking on one family member name his/her datails would be updated together with their children and parents.There are about 6000 names to go into the database which I am inputing.Is there another way that I have not thought about to create the site?Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbullmarky Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 i'm 100% behind ober's first post in this topic. if we all wrote for majority groups and ignored the minorities, then we'd all be writing CSS hacks and invalid code for IE still. Youtube/Google/Yahoo/MSN all use javascript - and it's pretty hard to avoid those on a day to day basis....So yeah - "Sod it and use AJAX" gets my vote too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcombs_31 Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 You can still just change the data using just php. Is data going to change while a user is staring at the page? Doesn't make sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztec Posted January 25, 2007 Author Share Posted January 25, 2007 No Data will only change when the viewer clips on a link. I agree that you can change the data with PHP but I was of the opinion the it would also refresh the page. Because so many pages are the same except for the data I am trying to avoid this happening.Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbullmarky Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 hmmm i'm gonna be a bit critical here and say that it sounds like a case of "ajax for the sake of using ajax". What benefits do YOU see to the user? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.josh Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 [quote]Because so many pages are the same except for the data[/quote]From your own mouth, you need to seriously think of a way to template these pages... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztec Posted January 25, 2007 Author Share Posted January 25, 2007 The benifits I see to the user are that they will have a static page on the screen and I assume a faster refresh of data than if they loaded a static page.To crayonviolet each page will have 28 placeholders for data. I have thought through what I consider to be a reasonable page design for the template. Is there something other that I should be considering?Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviewdr Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 Has iframes been suggested as an alternative to ajax in this case?-steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztec Posted January 25, 2007 Author Share Posted January 25, 2007 No it as not been suggested, could I ask you to elaborate a little on what it can do etc,Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviewdr Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 With iframes, you can have a div, or 1 small area of the website which can change and update independantly of the main browser window you are in.I.E. if you have a click area/button etc - you could possible put this inside a seperate page called databutton.php and call this via an iframe. When the person clicks submit etc. only that window will change.You should read up more about it.-steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcombs_31 Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 I would not suggest moving back in time by using iframes. If you must have the page load new data without a refresh, then ajax is the way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbullmarky Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 having said that, how much of the page gets refreshed? if i'm picturing this right, and going by what you said, then a large portion of the page is going to be updated - maybe just not the logo/nav (ie, the "outer" template), etc.ok, so a page refresh is gonna take slightly longer - but an AJAX call is STILL a page request, no matter how it's buttered up. if a large part of the page needs updating, then the "normal" way of refreshing the page is gonna be your best option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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