947740 Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 About three users on this forum got to talking about Javascript (CLICKY), and I decided to make a poll. So what do you think? Is javascript "crap"? Please explain your answer. There is no way that anybody can tell me that javascript is crap... users can turn javascript off... It all hipe javascript/ajax it all clint controlled sorry everyone but i dont think javasript means anythink to anyone sorry.... Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/105775-javascript-is-crap/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
revraz Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 It has it's purpose just like anything else. What is it "crap" compared to? Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/105775-javascript-is-crap/#findComment-541991 Share on other sites More sharing options...
947740 Posted May 15, 2008 Author Share Posted May 15, 2008 Just read the link to get the context. EDIT: Added the quote to the original post. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/105775-javascript-is-crap/#findComment-541992 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel0 Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 As I said in the other topic, it depends on how the programmer uses it. Sure, if you program it in a way so the site is dependent on having Javascript on, then it's not a good thing, but as I also said, it's not the language's fault that the programmer uses it poorly. If you properly separate the layers (content (HTML), presentation (CSS), behavior (Javascript)) and use unobtrusive Javascript then I believe Javascript can lead to richer user interfaces. I believe that the picture redarrow has of Javascript is more a shortcoming of himself rather than of the language itself. If you want me to elaborate further, please say so and I'll be happy to give you a working example. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/105775-javascript-is-crap/#findComment-542027 Share on other sites More sharing options...
zq29 Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 I fully agree with Daniel on this one. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/105775-javascript-is-crap/#findComment-542043 Share on other sites More sharing options...
448191 Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 Also, just because some vendors' implementations/interpreters suck, doesn't mean the language as intended is crappy. Otherwise CSS sucks too and even HTML. You can do some pretty damn cool UI stuff with JavaScript, given the right library. I (fairly) recently discovered ExtJS, and it's greatly increased my appreciation of JavaScript. It's pretty complicated (to me at least - js is not my best skill) with a ton of options, but you can finally do all that stuff that you found missing in Web interfaces. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/105775-javascript-is-crap/#findComment-542062 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardRotterdam Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 Javascript gained great popularity over past years especially with ajax sites. How ever just as we have seen in the past with flash, its sometimes just totally useless and only gets used because its just so cool. Javascript is great if it serves a purpose which sometimes means making a site look a little bit cooler but mostly it should be used to improve users experience. When ever i start a new project creating a website i first make sure everything works with just plain php and html. after that i try to give it just extra touch with javascripting. as for saying javascript sucks... i mean c'mon thats just too childish that kinda makes me think of those people that says xbox is better then ps3 or something. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/105775-javascript-is-crap/#findComment-542121 Share on other sites More sharing options...
947740 Posted May 15, 2008 Author Share Posted May 15, 2008 Very profound answers. Thank you all for your insight on the matter. I, for one, do not know very much Javascript. I just known enough to make certain things easier on the user. Daniel0-if you would like to elaborate, go ahead. I think it would be interesting to hear anything and everything (to a certain extent) that everyone has to say here. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/105775-javascript-is-crap/#findComment-542164 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel0 Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 Daniel0-if you would like to elaborate, go ahead. I think it would be interesting to hear anything and everything (to a certain extent) that everyone has to say here. I'll put up a live example later today. Edit: http://phpfreaks.com/daniel/unobtrusive_javascript/ Files/source of interest: http://phpfreaks.com/daniel/unobtrusive_javascript/index.txt http://phpfreaks.com/daniel/unobtrusive_javascript/lib.txt http://phpfreaks.com/daniel/unobtrusive_javascript/backend.txt http://phpfreaks.com/daniel/unobtrusive_javascript/script.js Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/105775-javascript-is-crap/#findComment-542167 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel0 Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 Right, so I forgot to tell WHY the above would be a good idea. By completely separating the Javascript and HTML you'll have easier maintainable code as it will not be all mixed up. Also, if you look at the Javascript and the link, then you'll see that the link actually has a href, but the Javascript attaches a click event to the link and returns false so the link will not be followed. This means that the users who have have Javascript off or are using browsers which are not capable of handling Javascript will still be able to use the application. However, the users who can use Javascript will experience the application as being more responsive and will probably have an overall better experience. It will also save some bandwidth seeing as in this case the response from the AJAX will be something like {"success":true,"new_number":18} which is 32 B long, where as a loading the page will be 551 B (approximately 1722% larger). On a very busy site with many such things, the savings could be significant. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/105775-javascript-is-crap/#findComment-542399 Share on other sites More sharing options...
947740 Posted May 16, 2008 Author Share Posted May 16, 2008 Thanks for putting that up. That really proved your point and helped explain how you could do that. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/105775-javascript-is-crap/#findComment-542819 Share on other sites More sharing options...
karpatzio Posted May 17, 2008 Share Posted May 17, 2008 lose money over javascript being turned off? definatly bad web application design, totally agree with daniel0 Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/105775-javascript-is-crap/#findComment-543494 Share on other sites More sharing options...
redarrow Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 I believe that the picture redarrow has of Javascript is more a shortcoming of himself rather than of the language itself dan what do you mean mate tell me more please? Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/105775-javascript-is-crap/#findComment-543918 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel0 Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 Well, I meant that just because there is something you cannot do, then it might not be the language's fault but your fault. As demonstrated above, the example script works both with and without Javascript, but it's more sleek with Javascript on. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/105775-javascript-is-crap/#findComment-544006 Share on other sites More sharing options...
blufish Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Using Javascripts that are presentation style like draggable elements cursor elements, are really annoying and distracting. But javascript has some nice features otherwise. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/105775-javascript-is-crap/#findComment-555561 Share on other sites More sharing options...
whizard Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 It has a purpose: to be a helper and make the user's experience as smooth as possible, and it does it well. Once it starts taking over the browser and becomes noticable, it crosses the line and becomes annoying. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/105775-javascript-is-crap/#findComment-557509 Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeB Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 Pretty sure I hate JavaScript. It gives me the biggest headache in the world. HTML, too, for that matter. Keep me in the back-end where I belong! Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/105775-javascript-is-crap/#findComment-560212 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derleek Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Using Javascripts that are presentation style like draggable elements cursor elements, are really annoying and distracting. But javascript has some nice features otherwise. It seems to me that these elements of JS can be implemented to benefit the user in a non-distracting way. Ex: i am currently working on a moto-cross fantasy league site. There are 40+ riders in each pre-entry list for each race. To me it seems more logical to be able to search a database and drag and drop the results than A) having the user type the riders name or B) having a extremely large drop down menu Granted i haven't really explored any other options, which i intend to do when i cross the bridge of developing this feature. but it just seems like the easiest, user friendly way to approach that situation. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/105775-javascript-is-crap/#findComment-568649 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILYAS415 Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 I think javascript is absolutely great. You can hide website elements with single clicks (user interface). Use ajax for fast applications. Move widgets and other stuff around (example i saw was a php messenger where they used js to move the window conversations around, "minimize" them and even close them). Where would we be without javascript? Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/105775-javascript-is-crap/#findComment-571470 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklink Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 JavaScript is great. There is a lot you can do with it if you understand how to use it. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/105775-javascript-is-crap/#findComment-571561 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 I picked the second option. I don't know why that redarrow kid was so going off on it. All you need to do is put <noscript></noscript> and use the part inbetween the tags if they don't have js on. :/ Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/105775-javascript-is-crap/#findComment-571832 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nadeemshafi9 Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 js and ajax techniqe is verry good, but it over complexifies stuff and is not very reliable but its all we got Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/105775-javascript-is-crap/#findComment-572166 Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbin Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 "js and ajax techniqe is verry good, but it over complexifies stuff and is not very reliable but its all we got" It 'over complexifies' stuff? Wouldn't that depend on the skill of the scripter using it? I can handle most JS (including AJAX) just fine. It's not very reliable? I think you need to back that up. If a user has JS enabled, and it was coded to be compatible with all (atleast most) browsers, where would this reliability problems come from? Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/105775-javascript-is-crap/#findComment-572307 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohdang888 Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 its very functional if you learn how to use it. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/105775-javascript-is-crap/#findComment-573840 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bastones Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 its very functional if you learn how to use it. Exactly! I don't know much JavaScript but I suppose there's always time to give it a go... I'm not sure if there is an official resource for JS for an explanation on every part of JS (like there is for server-side scripting languages such as PHP, etc). There may be an official resource so do let me know if there is . JavaScript is a little complicated and it has some really weird code that just does little things, like document.write() - and there are 2 things into that bit of code, one for document and one for write - why can't they make it simple - like output() lol... Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/105775-javascript-is-crap/#findComment-573983 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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