Finding a local PHP coder....

[ejaboneta]

I'm not looking for someone to hire... just curious what your opinions are. I was hired by a small insurance agency and i've used my self-taught php skills to develop web applications for our agents. Now I'm getting overwhelmed with the projects and updates that we're considering hiring another person. The problem is that everyone in our company starts at $10/hr. I know, I know... lol... but pay raises come often and its a really good place to work. I've gotten 3 raises in the past 10 months that I've been here. Everyone I find with any PHP knowledge at all, is an expert programmer with a high salary demand. I really wish I could find a young college student with at least some php/mysql skills. We don't mind people still learning.

 

Do you think what I am looking for is possible? We do not want telecommuters or outsourcing.

[Alex]

I think it's possible, but depending on your location it might not be that easy, as you're experiencing.

 

Personally I think it would be cool if I could find a similar opportunity in my vicinity. I've been teaching myself PHP and MySQL, among many other languages and fields, for a few years now and seeing as I'm young and have no experience with programming in a professional environment I think I could benefit tremendously from such an experience.

[trq]

everyone in our company starts at $10/hr

 

I'm not sure where you live but kids work at McDonalds are payed more where I'm from. I'm not sure what my hourly rate is exactly because I'm on a salary but there wouldn't be anyone in this room on less than $40/hr.

[ejaboneta]

In California, minimum wage is like $8.25 USD. So most McDonalds employees around here are working for less than that.

[Philip]

http://www.dol.gov/whd/minwage/america.htm

 

Don't expect many decent programmers to go for $10/hr.

[radar]

I remember when I first started professionally as a PHP developer, I started out doing updates and stores for a web development company for 10.00 an hour.  After 6 months of experience with their firm, I got promoted to PHP developer with a small raise, and double the workload. 

 

I've been around several other companies all as PHP developer, and now I'm at the hefty 55hr area of the payscale with the company I currently work for.    So yes you can find someone to hire on at 10 an hour, but if and when you do your ads you need to make it blatantly clear that it is an entry level position, and not put very demanding requirements in the job description. 

 

I recently was looking at PHP developer positions elsewhere, and I ran across one that said Entry Level, but the ammount of knowledge they wanted their applicants to know, surpassed that of my own knowledge and I am anything but Entry Level.

[trq]

Entry level php developers would expect around $55-60K in Sydney. That's a hell of allot more than $10hr. Sounds ridiculous.

[radar]

Yeah.  Entry level here, in Utah(USA), you can get away with offering 10 an hour.  Fast Food (ANY fast food) is going to start you out at minimum wage which is 7.25, so for someone just starting out with their PHP Development career here, would be happy to take 10 an hour.

 

California, where the minimum wage is higher, 10 seems too low, but you might be able to find that person (like me) who has a substatial criminal history but has changed his/her life around, but due to the past indescressions attached to their name, find it hard to get a job making anything but minimum wage. at that point you would find a person who has the knowledge, that would work for less.

[xylex]

The low pay problem gets compounded with the small insurance agency factor IMO.  Decent programmers and ambitious ones out of school might consider taking low paying positions in a dot-com type atmosphere, either with great potential for startup rewards, or surrounded by brilliant engineers with backgrounds top-tier companies.  Or a newer programmer might consider low paying jobs for big-name companies, even if it's through a contractor, to get some good experience on their resume.

 

Doesn't sound like any of those potential payoffs are applicable to you.  And learning to make tools for a few insurance agents to sell and manage insurance isn't exciting enough that a bunch of people are going to be lining up to do it.

 

So without being able to offer any of the non-pay perks of the IT industry, why would someone want to come work for you for far under market rate?

[xcoderx]

everyone in our company starts at $10/hr

 

I'm not sure where you live but kids work at McDonalds are payed more where I'm from. I'm not sure what my hourly rate is exactly because I'm on a salary but there wouldn't be anyone in this room on less than $40/hr.

thrope u from the U.K? or US? McDs paying $40 per hour is awesome man, but then in the US also i heard many offices pays like $14 to $15 per hour for jobs like admin etc?

[trq]

I'm in Australia. I wasn't saying McDonalds kids get $40/hr. I meant the people within my work's IT dept. I should imagine the going rate at McDonalds would be around $14/hr here.

[KevinM1]

To the OP, if you're interested in hiring college students, put up fliers at your local colleges, especially in and around their computer science departments.  Also, put the job up on Craigslist.  The students off for the summer will be found there looking for temp jobs and places to live next semester.

 

$10/hr for the rest of the summer plus professional work experience and references is a pretty sweet deal for a college student.

[ejaboneta]

To the OP, if you're interested in hiring college students, put up fliers at your local colleges, especially in and around their computer science departments.  Also, put the job up on Craigslist.  The students off for the summer will be found there looking for temp jobs and places to live next semester.

 

$10/hr for the rest of the summer plus professional work experience and references is a pretty sweet deal for a college student.

 

That's really what I was looking for. Someone with at least some knowledge of PHP who might not have the qualifications of a full blown PHP Developer. Like college student who's still learning. Last time, we tried craigslist and I informed a couple local colleges of the opening. Despite our posts saying $10/hr, we got alot of people with bachelors and masters(most of whom who we decided were overqualified) from craigslist and nothing from the colleges.  We ended up hiring a graphic designer/general tech instead so I could focus more on programming.

 

Oh and when I say overqualified, i mean they were asking for too much, which they probably deserved, or they were advanced programmers and we didn't think it'd be a good idea to hire them at $10/hr. We want someone kinda long term to grow with the company. We didn't want to someone looking for a temp job until they got a "real job". I mean I don't expect to be here forever but I know this is the right place for me to be right now, not just a stop on the way.

[KevinM1]

You just need to keep trying.  Also, be sure to word your position listing in a way that will appeal to undergrads.  Stress that it's a paid internship with the possibility of it becoming a permanent job.  That should keep the professionals away.

[Alex]

I'm in Australia. I wasn't saying McDonalds kids get $40/hr. I meant the people within my work's IT dept. I should imagine the going rate at McDonalds would be around $14/hr here.

According to this website the median hourly pay for a fast food worker in Australia is $10 AUD. According to the same website in the US it's $7.53 USD per hour, or approximately $8.65 AUD.

[radar]

You just need to keep trying.  Also, be sure to word your position listing in a way that will appeal to undergrads.  Stress that it's a paid internship with the possibility of it becoming a permanent job.  That should keep the professionals away.

 

thats the best suggestion i've read for the OP yet.  i remember when I was looking for a new job just recently, i was looking at paid internship positions but didnt apply to any as im not an intern caliber coder.  so i only applied for those that were not internships

[ejaboneta]

 

thats the best suggestion i've read for the OP yet.  i remember when I was looking for a new job just recently, i was looking at paid internship positions but didnt apply to any as im not an intern caliber coder.  so i only applied for those that were not internships

 

Wouldn't internships expect less than a regular employee? I thought there were some kind of requirements for handling internships? This is definitely a great idea nonetheless.

[radar]

Well to answer that question, one must first understand exactly what an 'intern' is.

 

Many internships in the United States are career specific. Students often choose internships based on their major at the university/college level. It is not uncommon for former interns to acquire full-time employment at an organization once they have enough necessary experience. The challenging job market has made it essential for college students to gain real world experience prior to graduation.[19] Jeff Gunhus, CEO for one of the largest internship programs in the U.S. said, "Undergraduates face different challenges than the average person looking for a career."[20] In the US, company internships are at the center of NIGMS funded biotechnology training programs[21] for science PhD students. One example is the Biotechnology Training Program - University of Virginia.

 

Not all internships are paid. Nearly all interns working in the United States must be paid, and at least the minimum wage, for their work in accordance with the Fair Labor Standards Act.[22] A lot of internships that aren't paid have to do with getting class credit; if the internship is directly involved with a specific class the student is taking, many of the internships are unpaid. The U.S. Department of Labor's Wage and Hour Division allows an employer not to pay an trainee if all of the following are true:[23]

 

1. The training, even though it includes actual operation of the facilities of the employer, is similar to what would be given in a vocational school or academic educational instruction;[23]

 

2. The training is for the benefit of the trainees;[23]

 

3. The trainees do not displace regular employees, but work under their close observation;[23]

 

4. The employer that provides the training derives no immediate advantage from the activities of the trainees, and on occasion the employer’s operations may actually be impeded;[23]

 

5. The trainees are not necessarily entitled to a job at the conclusion of the training period; and[23]

 

6. The employer and the trainees understand that the trainees are not entitled to wages for the time spent in training.[23]

 

An exception is allowed for individuals who volunteer their time, freely and without anticipation of compensation for religious, charitable, civic, or humanitarian purposes to non-profit organizations.[24] An exception is also allowed for work performed for a state or local government agency.[24]

 

Some states have their own laws on the subject.[22] Laws in the state of California, for example, require an employer to pay its interns working in California unless the intern receives college credit for the labor.[22]

 

 

With that said, seems to me an intern is what you're looking for

[Daniel0]

Next time you feel like copying from Wikipedia, please honor the content licensing (CC by-sa) that requires you to provide attribution.

 

It would probably be easier to just link to the article itself though: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intern#United_States