s0c0 Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 So my Dad is trying to talk me out of development saying I won't make near as much as net admin or sys admin will. He think most developers are stuck at 55k/yr. I disagree with him, what do you guys think. Right now I only pull in 40k doing development, but I'm green with only a few months experience in development and no degree in proramming/comp sci. I only have my associates in network and system infrastructure. I think once I finish a 4 year degree in a development related field and have 3-4 years under my belt I can be pulling in an easy 60k/yr (given a decent market). Am I wrong to assume such a thing? Is he right. In the end I've spent the past year as a network administrator and I'm sick and tired of shit breaking. I look over at the DBA next to me and he's always hammered with spids out of control and data corrections. I look at the sys admins and they are always sweating. I look at the IT Director and he's always sweating. That's not what I want. I look at the developers and they are coming in around 9-10 in the morning, working from home occassionally, and only have to pull crazy hours when something is really messed up or during a release. What are your thoughts? Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/46671-solved-fathers-tries-talking-son-out-of-career-in-development/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
neylitalo Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 That's not what I want. I look at the developers and they are coming in around 9-10 in the morning, working from home occassionally, and only have to pull crazy hours when something is really messed up or during a release. I think you just answered your own question. My boss used to say something along the lines of "The reason I got into software development was the glorious absence of a dress code." He's a brilliant programmer and problem-solver, so I assume he's joking, but he's got a point. You can usually be much more relaxed in a programming job than in most other positions. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/46671-solved-fathers-tries-talking-son-out-of-career-in-development/#findComment-227379 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustinnoe Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Go for what makes you happy. Life is short! Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/46671-solved-fathers-tries-talking-son-out-of-career-in-development/#findComment-227430 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShogunWarrior Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 This is a dilemma I am having aswell, as I imagine many have. True, life is short and you should enjoy whatever you do. However, just looking at the Dodge Viper SRT-10 yesterday made me know I don't want to work to get by, I want to make enough to have fun. Granted, it is easier said than done but there are still hard choices ahead which could make or break those dreams. The bottom line is that if you don't like sysadmin-ing then don't do it. I would do a job I less liked for better pay, but NOT one that I didn't like at all (except for crazy money). Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/46671-solved-fathers-tries-talking-son-out-of-career-in-development/#findComment-227551 Share on other sites More sharing options...
obsidian Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 He think most developers are stuck at 55k/yr. I disagree with him, what do you guys think. I can put this one to rest right now. I've got 4 years' experience with no degree in my field, and I was just made a job offer at $66K+. While this isn't the norm, if you know your stuff, you'll be in high demand. The beauty of the offer is that there's still room for growth beyond that, too. As for the hours, even as a developer, you'll have to be willing to pull those strange hours, but how often you do it really depends on how reliable your code is the first time around Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/46671-solved-fathers-tries-talking-son-out-of-career-in-development/#findComment-227563 Share on other sites More sharing options...
s0c0 Posted April 12, 2007 Author Share Posted April 12, 2007 He think most developers are stuck at 55k/yr. I disagree with him, what do you guys think. I can put this one to rest right now. I've got 4 years' experience with no degree in my field, and I was just made a job offer at $66K+. While this isn't the norm, if you know your stuff, you'll be in high demand. The beauty of the offer is that there's still room for growth beyond that, too. As for the hours, even as a developer, you'll have to be willing to pull those strange hours, but how often you do it really depends on how reliable your code is the first time around Sweet. Yeah me buddy who is only 21 just graduated with a 4 year in cs and has no work related experience in programming - they started him at 64k/yr as a java developer. So thats two. Thanks for the response's guys/gals. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/46671-solved-fathers-tries-talking-son-out-of-career-in-development/#findComment-227666 Share on other sites More sharing options...
artacus Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Well I've worked as a network engineer, sys admin, dba and developer. My personal experience is that I strongly prefer developing. I'm a very creative sort, so I thrive on coming up with solutions to impossible problems... plus I have a deep aversion to boredom. The net and sys admins largely involve fixing or maintaining stuff, so at the end of the day you don't really have that joy of looking back and admiring what you've accomplished... many days your accomplishments are "well its not any more broken that it was yesterday." The MS sys admins know what I'm talking about. LOL. And no one says, "Wow, that was a stroke of genius how you imaged that machine." The DBA is a mix between the two. It can be exciting when you are laying out new databases, writing ETL scripts, writing new queries, or creating a warehouse. But after that, when it gets to the monitoring stage, no thanks. The great thing about being a developer is that if you play your cards right, it can be a source of residual income. So after you develop a name for yourself, you can go to a client and say "look, you really can't afford me. But I'm going to do the project anyhow. I'm going to keep the rights to the code and you get (a percent of my sales, free support, free updates, whatever)" That's something you cant do with the other IT jobs. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/46671-solved-fathers-tries-talking-son-out-of-career-in-development/#findComment-227729 Share on other sites More sharing options...
roopurt18 Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 I'm one course away from a B.S. in computer science and a minor in physics and only working 35 hours / week at my current job. The job was advertised as entry level but I'm the only developer working on the project so in addition to PHP, MySQL, Javascript + AJAX, I also do application / DB design and maintenance, UI design and implementation, and everything else associated with the project. I'm currently at 59k / year and this is my first job. I actually got very lucky with this job; I expected it to be entry level where I just document or debug code that already exists. But since I'm the only programmer I have a lot more responsibility and freedom which equates to more useful experience IMO. I figure if I pull another year here and I could get another job, regardless of degree, at 70k / year at least as one of the main developers of a project. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/46671-solved-fathers-tries-talking-son-out-of-career-in-development/#findComment-227734 Share on other sites More sharing options...
roopurt18 Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 The great thing about being a developer is that if you play your cards right, it can be a source of residual income. So after you develop a name for yourself, you can go to a client and say "look, you really can't afford me. But I'm going to do the project anyhow. I'm going to keep the rights to the code and you get (a percent of my sales, free support, free updates, whatever)" That's something you cant do with the other IT jobs. That's a great point as well. Basically, developers that are hot shit get a lot of kudos. I have a game programmer friend who lives in So. California but works for a company in San Francisco. He's so far above and beyond most of the other developers that they begged him to come back when he left and when you're in that position you have a lot of power. So now he works from home and goes to San Fran only when they're about to release a title. He has to be near the phone while he's at home, but he only really works about 2 hours per day as far as I can tell. And he can get away with it because in that two hours he produces more and better working code than other programmers at the company. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/46671-solved-fathers-tries-talking-son-out-of-career-in-development/#findComment-227744 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ober Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 In the IT world, it's often the case where programmers are at the low end of the salary scale compared to their IT counterparts. The money is usually in admin or DBA type work. And it's sad really, because most programmers I know could run circles around most admins. It's rarely, if ever, the case in reverse. I would say most programmers in normal markets will stay under $75K... where a DBA position probably tops out just under 6 figures. One reason is the fact that DBAs and admins are on call all the time... but that duty is not one I'm willing to take on. Money is only worth so much when you get yanked out of a party or held back from a vacation because you have to track down a bug in a production system. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/46671-solved-fathers-tries-talking-son-out-of-career-in-development/#findComment-227806 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmgmyr Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 I'd say go for it and try it out for a little while, if you don't like it you can always get a full time job. I just made the switch recently to do this stuff full time and I love it. I do still have some clients that I do some inhouse stuff for, but most of it I do from home. Money is nice but I hate getting up in the morning for someone else, working on their time, and making THEM money. Why not work for yourself? I just think it's a lot more satisfying. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/46671-solved-fathers-tries-talking-son-out-of-career-in-development/#findComment-227816 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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