redbullmarky Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 As the title says, Apple have released public beta 3 of Safari. Downloading and installing as we speak.... http://www.apple.com/safari/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel0 Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Does it work for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
448191 Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Looks like the engine is quite a little different then.... Kinda defeats the purpose for me, which would be testing for cross-browser compatibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbullmarky Posted June 12, 2007 Author Share Posted June 12, 2007 yeah works for me ok: tried it on mac and PC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ober Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Their numbers are skewed on that front page. http://www.entropysink.com/forums/index.php?topic=4313.0 for more info. I'm still curious to see it, but the only thing Opera doesn't have that it does is the resizing of text boxes... which I'm not sure I'd use anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbullmarky Posted June 12, 2007 Author Share Posted June 12, 2007 Safari is a great little browser, but on a PC I reckon it'll suffer the same fate as Opera in that it doesnt offer anything substantially different to the average internet user. FF was free when many werent, and to be fair they rammed the point home - which is why it has taken the chunk from IE that it has. Until another browser really rams something special home, it'll be an IE vs FF battleground. Us developers will be its main users, I think - testing out for another popular browser, especially if the Win version renders the same as the Mac version (which is personally the only main reason for me being quite pleased with its release). And also because it's not generally your average user that cares much about web standards (unless a site appears purely mashed) - just developers and those with accessibility needs. It's been mentioned elsewhere but it wouldnt surprise me if Apple are up to something MUCH bigger as far as the PC/Windows is concerned, and this is just a start... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ober Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 >>suffer the same fate as Opera which would be what? Not gaining a large cut of the market? I'd hardly say that's the case since they've expanded into so many other areas that the other browsers haven't. Opera is in everything from phones to video game consoles to a variety of other web-enabled devices. And I would go as far as to say they offer WAY more than the other browsers. What other browser packs half as much into the same app as Opera? And it's all about the little features that keeps me in the Opera ring... a simple thing like "paste and go" from a context menu is invaluable as far as I'm concerned, yet no other browser offers that stuff out of the box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akitchin Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 ober, i admire the fact that you fight so vehemently for opera in all these discussions. i'm not trying to be condescending, i'm actually impressed. i'd like to someday create a wrestling outfit themed for opera-man and send it to you. spandex, belt, mask, angry smack-talking demeanor and all. somewhat more on topic, i agree that it'd be great if this release has the same rendering engine as the mac version, because then i wouldn't have to neglect the Mac community when coding layouts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ober Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 LOL... if you get around to it, I'll be sure to take a picture and post it here I just think it's a quality product with a quality company and it's only a matter of time until more people start to realize it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbullmarky Posted June 12, 2007 Author Share Posted June 12, 2007 Opera is in everything from phones to video game consoles to a variety of other web-enabled devices. And I would go as far as to say they offer WAY more than the other browsers. couldnt agree with you more - and it IS a great browser (and incidently it was you that made a fan out of me) but in my post i'm generally on about the main browser war between computer browsers rather than additional devices. my line: same fate as Opera in that it doesnt offer anything substantially different to the average internet user still stands IMO, because average user just wants to surf the net, check their hotmail/yahoo, do something on ebay and perhaps check the news - so speed, web standards, addons, toolbars, etc dont come into it as much. in that respect, there's no reason to switch. When I first came across FF, all I saw was them promoting that it was free and pushing across how many security issues IE has - which was enough for me. I believe Opera was not free software at that point, else maybe I would have gone down that road. In this case, "substantially different" was Free, secure and better features (ie, tabs etc). I still use Opera on my fone though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ober Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Point taken. And I think Opera would have taken a bigger piece of the pie had they removed the ads and made it completely free earlier on. But that's their own fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquid Fire Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 I never liked IE and once I got into web development I just fell in love with FF. The are many add on for FF the help in web development so much and it follows the cs2 standard a bit better then IE(I don't know how well opera does but i am sure it is also better than IE, i think i heard it was better than FF too awhile back). I honestly think it is pointless for mac to release their web browser on windows because what do they gain? I really don't care too much however the thing that is a pain in the ass is that each browser seems to support the css standards a little differently. This stuff can make for nightmares for web developer using css and well everyone now uses css to style sites. My rule is if I need to do some weird funky shit to get my stuff to properly display in your browser because your browser does not support all standard css tags, then screw your browser. The only exception to that rule is IE only because is has such a large market of users. I develop everything is Firefox then do a run of my site/application in IE to fix any major issues. Of course I do not do to much web development with site more on applications, a project management system. I only work with website in my job and i don't have to deal with css for formatting to much at my job. I think at all current browser and any new browser that come out should allow for all standard css(whatever the latest version is) and if they don't(like IE), they should fix it so they do, I mean Microsoft cleaned up they act little with IE7 since they now support a lot more of css2 where IE6 did not. I don't care if you add your own crap to it but support the standards at a minimum, that is what they are they for. if you don't support the accepted standards then you should not be make a browser IMO. And on another side note, a web browser should do just that, browse the web, nothing more and nothing less because it is not meant to, and if you do add stuff, it should not effect how websites are displayed, it shoudl only effect the application itself, you should not have to have developers jump through hoops to get their site to work on your browser, should be the other way around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akitchin Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 you're preaching to the choir here. i've lost count of how many times we've had the same thread bitching about non-standards-compliance. the plain truth is browsers will never all render the same way, and we'll always have to jump through hoops. that's part of our job as web developers and always will be, whether we like it or not. the silver lining is that's part of what makes you a specialist, compared with that friend of a friend who can do websites for cheap but that look inconsistent and shitty. part of what distinguishes a pro from an amateur: those who dedicate themselves to their profession from those that aren't as committed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ober Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 you're preaching to the choir here. i've lost count of how many times we've had the same thread bitching about non-standards-compliance. the plain truth is browsers will never all render the same way, and we'll always have to jump through hoops. that's part of our job as web developers and always will be, whether we like it or not. the silver lining is that's part of what makes you a specialist, compared with that friend of a friend who can do websites for cheap but that look inconsistent and shitty. part of what distinguishes a pro from an amateur: those who dedicate themselves to their profession from those that aren't as committed. I couldn't have said it better myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
448191 Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 part of what distinguishes a pro from an amateur: those who dedicate themselves to their profession from those that aren't as committed. I can definitely think of more interesting things to do than debugging javascript on IE, or trying to get something displayed properly in multiple browsers... There are plenty of other ways to distinguish oneself. I personally think ALL browsers should be 99.9% standards compliant. But I don't think any serious time or money will be invested in that (at least not enough) as long as there are developers willing to 'jump through hoops' as it was so accurately put. So I guess I'm on the bitching side of the line. No surprise there, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquid Fire Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 Well supporting anything besides the 2 major browser(which are IE and FF I think, I think IE has about 75-80% or the market and FF has 10-15% of the market for general users, I think the FF is used more by technical people tho) does not mean the programmer in professional. I mean for example with my project management system, which would be more worth my time, 1. adding new feature to the system that already supports at least 90-95% of possible users with IE/FF support or waste time debugging and hack my javascript/css to work with Opera and Safari? Safari and Opera has a very very small market for my product(i mean i think opera is popular on phones but my project management system is not designed to be used on phones). Calling someone unprofessional because they don't support a few browser the combine may take about 5% of the browser market is not fair, it all depends on the product/website they are making. if the site is designed for phones then i would say you should support opera since they are a lot more popular on phones than computers. This does not mean I would not run thought my application on opera and safari, it just mean i would not spend alot of time doing so as i would when i run my application through IE. Like I said before, if you are going to come out with a web browser, you should support all XHTML and CSS standard and continue to update their support has they are updated by the W3C, if not then don't except your browser to be supported. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ober Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp And to say that Opera is mainly for phones is a little ... well... wrong. Opera has a large part of that market, I'll give you that. But it's also the MOST standards compliant browser available. IMHO, designers should design in Opera and then tweak for the other less-standards compliant browsers. That's how I work and it causes me less headaches across the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquid Fire Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp Opera has a large part of that market The largest % they have had this year and last year was 1.6%, how is that a large percentage? Also i never said the Opera was mainly for phone I just said the opera is used more on phone than computers percentage wize(i bet you they have more than 1.6% on phones). I have not yet come across any of my css that has not worked in FF that has followed the css2 standards and the web developer add on for Firefox is so useful and saves me a lot of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ober Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 Did you even read what I wrote? The browser stats have nothing to do with the comment I made about Opera having a large portion of the mobile market. I mainly stuck the link in there to correct your FF browser stats. It's actually quite a bit higher than you said. And FF still doesn't pass the ACID test. Opera (and I think Safari) are the only ones that hold that title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ober Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 Try to run this in your precious FF: http://www.webstandards.org/files/acid2/test.html#top Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquid Fire Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 Well after looking at thier css code, half of that stuff i don't need in order to build a clean, easy to use, and intuitive css based interface. I give you that FF does not follow the css standard like opera does(i believe i stated that is my first post). I really don't think opera and safari are a major issue anyways becuase my css i writen is always standard unless a IE hack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel0 Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 Try to run this in your precious FF: http://www.webstandards.org/files/acid2/test.html#top Hmm... [attachment deleted by admin] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ober Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 Me think's you're screwing with PS. I just ran that in FF before I posted, so I know for a fact that it doesn't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel0 Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 It works in Firefox 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquid Fire Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 I have just tested it and yes FireFox 3 displays the acid 2 test perfectly. I just FireFox has finally got there css up to par with opera and safari. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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