Writin Propa English

[nadeemshafi9]

I usually write very slang style MSN type vocabulary on http://phpfreaks.com but now i realize that:

 

1. This is unhelpful to search engines

2. It is very unhelpful to people who don't speak English as there first language

3. It can be very ambiguous in meaning and that is the whole point of software engineering to eliminate ambiguity.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_slangInternet Slang, 27/01/09, wikipedia - David Crystal—likening the introduction of LOL, ROFL, and others into spoken language in magnitude to the revolution of Johannes Gutenberg's invention of movable type in the 15th century—states that this is "a brand new variety of language evolving", invented by young people within five years, that extend the range of the language, the expressiveness [and] the richness of the language.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_slang, 27/01/09, wikipedia - Laccetti (professor of humanities at Stevens Institute of Technology) and Molsk, in their essay entitled The Lost Art of Writing, are critical of the acronyms, predicting reduced chances of employment for students who use such acronyms, stating that, "Unfortunately for these students, their bosses will not be 'lol' when they read a report that lacks proper punctuation and grammar, has numerous misspellings, various made-up words, and silly acronyms." Fondiller and Nerone in their style manual assert that "professional or business communication should never be careless or poorly constructed whether one is writing an electronic mail message or an article for publication, and warn against the use of smileys and these abbreviations, stating that they are "no more than e-mail slang and have no place in business communication.

 

So i pledge to write proper grammatically correct English and spell check, this is made easy for me as i have the superior OSX environment which facilitates spell checking directly in this text box.

 

It can be argued that web application specifications are more ambiguous than system software specification because of the rapidity of there changing requirements and the cost effectiveness of there initial specification engineering.

 

What are your thoughts ?. I would love to hear peoples opinion on specifically web application specification engineering and the amount of ambiguity they have in there web application specs, you can throw in your two cents on internet slang and its place in the world.

 

My second language is Urdu http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urdu.

 

Urdu is often contrasted with Hindi, another standardised form of Hindustani. The main differences between the two are that Standard Urdu is conventionally written in Nastaliq calligraphy style of the Perso-Arabic script and draws vocabulary more heavily from Persian and Arabic than Hindi,[9] while Standard Hindi is conventionally written in Devanāgarī and draws vocabulary from Sanskrit comparatively more heavily. Some linguists nonetheless consider Urdu and Hindi to be two standardized forms of the same language; however, others classify them separately due to sociolinguistic differences.

 

Urdu is a combination of Persian, Arabic, Turkic, Mongolian, Sanskrit, English, the persio-arab script can be used to express words from any place in trhe world but is too complex for print or keyboards.

 

Seen.

 

 

[nadeemshafi9]

because urdu is a so many languages i can understand, alot of dialects i dint even ask i was born into it, anyways most eastern languages both talk and write from right to left oposite to english, but URDU has a combination of ways of speaking from left to right or from right to left eg.

 

app ka naam kia heh -- you (politness) name what is

 

app kidder jah reh ho -- you where go (present tense) (direction)

[corbin]

Just of curiosity, what were the advantages of not speaking proper English?  What kept you from having this revelation sooner?

[nadeemshafi9]

Just of curiosity, what were the advantages of not speaking proper English?  What kept you from having this revelation sooner?

 

I kept saying to myself these fogies keep telling me to conform and i am a non conformist rebel at some times trying to be free and have fun and do things the way they feel right, when they told me to write proper i just wanted to show them a glimpse of how English is written and spoken in England by English people every day. When u type lightning speed words are written as they sound in the shortest possible way, to be honest i usually write my messages at lightning speed hit the submit and keep working on my project i always check back but usually by then i have done the work rarely i need the answer from php freaks but its all part of the research process.

 

I will still type iv instead i have and things like that.

 

It is much more fun to read new words written in funky ways.

[nadeemshafi9]

As Fondiller and Nerone in the above quotes say there is no place in business communication for slang or ambiguity, thats a cool name Fondiller.

[corbin]

Oh....

 

 

 

I don't mean this as an insult to you, but I usually assume people are stupid when they type incoherently.  Also, it doesn't take much more time to properly punctuate and spell.  What ever floats your boat though.

[nadeemshafi9]

Oh....

 

 

 

I don't mean this as an insult to you, but I usually assume people are stupid when they type incoherently.  Also, it doesn't take much more time to properly punctuate and spell.  What ever floats your boat though.

 

Yeah, no your right, they are but stupid people are fun and live on the edge so its fun to be one of them sometimes and mix into the crowd and have some fun with them. What would the world be without stupid people it would be no fun, we would have nothing to talk about, every outing would be boring. I have come to the conclusion stupid people are fun to experience, if u know how to handle them they can be tamed, lets face it there are a lot more stupid people in the world so why deny a majority why not embrace them.

 

Without stupids we would have no fun media on the net, stupids are fun to watch listen to, some of there words are cool too no denying that, if stupids went smart and everyone was a grammatically correct programmer we would be bored to extinction, we all have a bit of stupid in us.

[Maq]

So what's the point of this thread? 

 

Are you asking us if we think you should type in proper English...?  Of course we do.

 

You should regardless, unless you want to be a "stupid person".  If you get a job you won't be able to write like that, speak like that, or act like that.  You should always type and speak properly so everyone can understand you.  It's kind of like being up to the w3 validation, it just makes everything easier and up to the standard.

 

You can still be "stupid" and speak proper English, and vice versa.

[.josh]

Playing "word games" by mixing around spellings, creating new spellings, using words in different ways, stretching their meanings out and mixing meanings with meanings to explore and create new meanings and concepts is indeed fun, even to a lot of those people you would label as 'prude' or 'uptight' or 'strict' or <insert whatever word suits you>.  That's why there are sonnets and poems and prose and limericks and songs and odes and haikus and all of those other things. 

 

But doing things like spelling "learn" as "lrn" is superficial. You haven't changed the meaning of the word, even in the context.  At most, I will say that maybe there are some of you "leet speak" kiddies out there who are playing some kind of "let's see how much I can distort my words and still get my point across" game, but if you were smart enough to be looking at it like that, you would certainly be smart enough to recognize that when you are trying to get something done, distorting your words does not help the matter.

 

If you are writing just to write, playing word games, etc.. then it's perfectly acceptable to do things like that.  But the world does not cater to you.  If you want something from someone, be it item or info, it is your responsibility to make an effort to speak in their language.  It is your responsibility to convince them to give it to you or help you out or whatever the situation calls for. 

 

If you are serious about your need, then be serious about your communication.  People judge how serious you and/or your needs are, by how much effort you are putting into it.  So when they see that you aren't even making an effort to spell correctly or be clear about your request or put any of your own work into achieving whatever end you are trying to reach, why should they take you seriously or even bother with you?  It makes you come off as someone trying to bum for something you don't really need, which at best, is annoying.

 

What I find particularly amusing about people who fail to be or rebel against being grammatically correct (and spelling correctly), are the people who strive to code.  Computers are not as forgiving.  Or else they are not smart enough to understand.  Or they simply aren't programmed to understand that learn == lern == lurn == lrn == etc... However you want to spin it, point is, I find it amusing and hard to believe that anybody can be a good programmer when they can't even discipline themselves to communicate correctly in their native tongue. 

 

I'm not saying it's impossible to (for example) be horrible at English but great at programming.  All languages have their own 'grammar' and 'spelling' rules, and programming languages are no exception, in that regard.  I recognize that for some, coding 'rules' are a lot easier to understand than traditional oral/written languages.  But I'm sorry, in my experience, the vast majority of people who can't or won't follow the rules of their own tongue, do not fall into this category. 

 

In my experience, they are indeed crappy programmers because they fail to or refuse to recognize the rules.  All day long I see syntax error threads pop up that are a direct result of some missing bracket or brace or quote or semi-colon or whatever.  Sometimes it's hard to spot, even if the code is following some sort of indentation format.  Usually it's because the code is not being indented.  Regardless, most of the time, the poster doesn't even understand what the error means or that he needed some opening or closing something in the first place.

 

Or they can't seem to grasp even the most basic logic rules and structures, like how arrays or loops work, or variable scope, or data persistence.  They want to jump right in and write a book when they don't know how to write a sentence or carry a story line.

 

It's nothing personal, and it's not a matter of people trying to enforce their prudishness on you.  If you ask for a banana, would you expect someone to hand you an orange? Or a fork?  No you wouldn't, because you asked for a banana, and you expect them to understand that a banana is not an orange or a fork.  It's the same principle. 

[corbin]

Hrmmm....  Well....  I guess between Maq and CV, I don't have much left to say >.<.  Or anything x.x.

[DarkWater]

If you ask for a banana, would you expect someone to hand you an orange? Or a fork?  No you wouldn't, because you asked for a banana, and you expect them to understand that a banana is not an orange or a fork.  It's the same principle.

 

I think that's going in my sig.

[TheFilmGod]

Crayon violet, did you ever consider writing a book? You have an intriguing style of writing. Maybe a good php good? 

[nadeemshafi9]

So what's the point of this thread? 

 

Are you asking us if we think you should type in proper English...?  Of course we do.

 

You should regardless, unless you want to be a "stupid person".  If you get a job you won't be able to write like that, speak like that, or act like that.  You should always type and speak properly so everyone can understand you.  It's kind of like being up to the w3 validation, it just makes everything easier and up to the standard.

 

You can still be "stupid" and speak proper English, and vice versa.

 

I have got a job, i have been a pure LAMP JS developer for 1 year and 4 months i have a first class in net science, the reason i am saying i want to make sure i type proper all the time is i don't want to accidentally put lol or something like that into a business related email one day that would be bad, and at that point i would feel my standards drop. Thing is theres a problem here i type all day long to my mates on MSN all day long in this hyper text.

 

 

I can program JavaScript and PHP on MYSQL Apache very well now after 1 year and a few months of working with it every day for 8 hours, my CSS and HTML is solid and i use PEAR and JQuery all the time to code with but have started from the bottom eg making my own frameworks and actually implementing them, after a while i took on JQuery and PEAR when i realized how easy the same tasks were AJAX calls and DOM calls or emails with attachments, i also have the framework backward engineering with use of the manual of MediaWiki and that means i can use Drupal. I also have done projects for university in:

 

*C

*C++

*Java

*ADA

[nadeemshafi9]

People that make web applications for companies like Pipex internet in connection with there ISP users database make a mockery of internet applications and i want to be more precise than them, there systems are in complete malfunction and they don't even know, they have had a database move or application change and they have lost my status and i am getting free broadband, i even told them they said your lines canceled i said i am getting broadband they said don't worry all there people are crap and i hate crappies and i hope they fall one day they don't deserve to be a company ISP there standards have become too low after joining Tiscaly.

 

So i am looking at these big corps and i see its the little things that count, i go into Starbucks and there people are so polite and there coffee tastes so good and there food is soo good and there things so good, so i am like i don't mind paying £3 a coffee every day.

[Maq]

You lost me...