Alex Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Does anyone else find it annoying not only how people advertise themselves by saying X years of experience but also that often people seem to have the misconception that there's a direct relationship between years of experience and actual skill / knowledge? I guess this is the same type of thing as forum posts on this website. Although sometimes more time spent can mean more knowledge, this isn't always true. I've seen examples where people say they have 2+ years with a language yet they're still a complete novice. I find it especially annoying because someone could have just studied a language on the side maybe learning a little bit here and there for 5+ years and have less actual experience than someone who has been studying it rigorously for only a few months. Does this bother anyone else? Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/176915-actual-experience/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
PugJr Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Its called marketing, and you do whatever makes you seem best that is legal. I would think people would respond to freelancers that have created websites that are similar to their own interests. I wish it was possible to see the freelance statistics on what people respond to and how many people that don't keep their part of the bargain. Also, the amount of money that they do get paid on average per hour. Unfortunately, there is no way we could ever know. Well, its possible, but not within PHPFreaks grip. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/176915-actual-experience/#findComment-932797 Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbin Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Its called marketing, and you do whatever makes you seem best that is legal. I would think people would respond to freelancers that have created websites that are similar to their own interests. Just because it's legal doesn't make it morally ok. Then again, I guess the client can always ask the person what exactly those X years of experience entail. I wish it was possible to see the freelance statistics on what people respond to and how many people that don't keep their part of the bargain. Also, the amount of money that they do get paid on average per hour. Unfortunately, there is no way we could ever know. Well, its possible, but not within PHPFreaks grip. Eh, since PHPFreaks is aimed at helping people and not at finding work, I doubt that will ever happen. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/176915-actual-experience/#findComment-932798 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PugJr Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Just because it's legal doesn't make it morally ok. Then again, I guess the client can always ask the person what exactly those X years of experience entail. There is nothing morally wrong about boasting. Although, I did say "whatever makes you seem best that is legal" which would imply that anything, and in which case, I would agree that it would not always be morally right, but as far as boasting goes, nothing wrong. Eh, since PHPFreaks is aimed at helping people and not at finding work, I doubt that will ever happen. Its not a matter of can, its a matter that it can't. Unless PHPFreaks makes all of freelancing within their own site (Eg. banning all links to outside communications, which will never happen.), they simply can't, as people will discuss terms in email/messengers/whatever and PHPfreaks can not monitor that. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/176915-actual-experience/#findComment-932799 Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbin Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Just because it's legal doesn't make it morally ok. Then again, I guess the client can always ask the person what exactly those X years of experience entail. There is nothing morally wrong about boasting. Although, I did say "whatever makes you seem best that is legal" which would imply that anything, and in which case, I would agree that it would not always be morally right, but as far as boasting goes, nothing wrong. But at what point does boasting become lying? Technically I've been coding PHP for ~4 years. Would it be right to tell someone that when looking for a job though? What does that even mean in terms of qualifications? That I've been "trying" to learn PHP for 4 years. Portraying one's self in the best manner possible while remaining honest is perfectly fine. Misleading even the slightest though when done intentionally is not quite as fine. Its not a matter of can, its a matter that it can't. Unless PHPFreaks makes all of freelancing within their own site (Eg. banning all links to outside communications, which will never happen.), they simply can't, as people will discuss terms in email/messengers/whatever and PHPfreaks can not monitor that. Well, I didn't mean quite that controlled. Just like a +- system or something. (I was mainly just thinking about the deals falling through part of your post.) Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/176915-actual-experience/#findComment-932805 Share on other sites More sharing options...
xylex Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Most people who've been hiring developers for any amount of time know the questions to ask to see through the BS. For example, if you say you've been doing freelance PHP for 4 years now, but can't rattle off a list of differences between PHP 4 and 5, or describe how to setup at least two different types of integrations with Paypal, you're full of it. The ones who don't know to ask these questions are usually also the ones who take e-mails that start "We do good with Internets and can build complete website for $100" seriously. They're going to get burned repeatedly as they start to learn what to look for, and they're not anyone I'd want to work for until they understand what having good talent in a position really means. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/176915-actual-experience/#findComment-932823 Share on other sites More sharing options...
448191 Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 9 out of 10 times developers hiring developers just want to see some code. That's all. You can tell a lot from a decent size chunk of code, even some of the less obvious things. Btw, I'm a freelancer and I don't have a clue how to do PayPal integration and I want to keep it that way, if at all possible. PayPal integration is generally only used by small businesses, larger business generally use a different credit card gateway (although I admit to having done some stuff using iDeal, which is sort of the same in The Netherlands, but different ). If I can at all avoid the crowd who thinks 1k is a mayor budget, I will. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/176915-actual-experience/#findComment-932836 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadTechie Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 9 out of 10 times developers hiring developers just want to see some code. I do agree with this, but once I have seen their code, I then have a better idea of what they are good at, so know what projects to hand their way, I would never hire a developer to write something that would take me over 2 weeks to write without seeing a few examples of their code first. but would hand a smaller project to get an idea (even if I had the time to write it myself) -MadTechie 1 20 Years experienced Fisherman (on and off) 2 14 Years Full Driving license (no points) 1been fishing about 20 times 2I can but don't drive procrastination, and [..I'll write the rest later..] Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/176915-actual-experience/#findComment-932839 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 I agree that, x amount of years experience doesn't prove anything for ability. I also think there's a massive difference between "experience" and "professional experience" - in that working within a professional team you learn a lot faster and to a higher quality (I'm not saying those who learnt the ropes another way can't be of high quality of course). It generally shows though that you can work within a professional environment, meeting dead lines and such. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/176915-actual-experience/#findComment-932899 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cags Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 I have 26 years experience of problem solving. Admittedly 25 years ago the problems I was attempting to solve were 'how not to drool all over anything within reach' and 'how not to soil myself'. Nb. I'm 26 years old, not a 50 year old with some kind of bodily function disorder. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/176915-actual-experience/#findComment-932942 Share on other sites More sharing options...
trq Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Nb. I'm 26 years old, not a 50 year old with some kind of bodily function disorder. We'll have to take your word for that Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/176915-actual-experience/#findComment-932944 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cags Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Yes you will, thats my story and I'm sticking to it. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/176915-actual-experience/#findComment-932947 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kickstart Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Hi Experience also depends on what you are doing. I have never touched paypal integration, and I am highly unlikely to in the foreseeable future. Zero problem for the things I am touching, but would be an issue if someone wanted me to implement an online shop (unlikely). There are also loads of things that can be done crudely, which people will get away with for years. Eg, looping round the results from one piece of SQL and for each result executing some more SQL, which can normally be easily done with a single JOINed query. Also, part of knowing is knowing where to look up the stuff that you have forgotten (my memory is lousy these days). One other thing, some people seem to have been taught very badly how to program. For example where I used to work we had a few IT graduates start who were sent on a course in PL/1. While they came out of the course knowing the syntax, it appeared that the course (and their IT degrees) had completely missed how a program flows. Result was code that flowed like random jottings on a piece of paper. To an extent you can see the same tendency on here with some people, with they way they lay out their code. All the best Keith Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/176915-actual-experience/#findComment-933099 Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbin Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Also, part of knowing is knowing where to look up the stuff that you have forgotten (my memory is lousy these days). I sure wish that PHP had a standard about function names/arguments... lol. Every damn time I use in_array I have to look it up. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/176915-actual-experience/#findComment-933365 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kickstart Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Same here. Worst thing for me was using PL/1 and Cobol at about the same time. PL/1 used & while Cobol used AND. Get those mixed up and you would spend ages looking at the code trying to work out what was wrong, as both looked right. All the best Keith Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/176915-actual-experience/#findComment-933609 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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