other languages

[fert]

[quote author=businessman332211 link=topic=110237.msg445193#msg445193 date=1159796143]
x-box360, gamecude, dreamcase
What languages are used to build all of those
[/quote]
to write games for the 360 you need C# and XNA, but you also need to pay $99 (a year) to have your games work for the 360

[hostfreak]

[quote author=businessman332211 link=topic=110237.msg445367#msg445367 date=1159807296]
See The thing with graphic design, and layout design, once I get more experience ,I will start getting better, I was wondering if flash is the same way, or is flash for like a master graphic designer or something.  I mean doing flash intro's I don't normally try them but I wsa going to eventually create a flash only site just for fun.
[/quote]

It depends on the complexity of the flash animation you want to accomplish. For me, transitioning from graphic/layout design to flash animation wasn't hard at all. You wont be doing "everything" in flash. Although you could, by why would you want to? You can start off with your program (say Photoshop), import your graphic to flash and add your flash animation etc.

edit- When I submitted my reply I didn't see that there was two pages. So if someone as already more less said what I just said, I apologize.

[jcombs_31]

wow, honestly you seem completely lost in this field.  You don't seem to understand the basic concepts of languages, frameworks, or even certain applications.  Do you really not know what flash is or used for?  Flash for a master graphic designer?  You can place some simple boxes and circles and make them move if you really want to, but what would be the point?  Flash is for presentation, presentation should look nice, so I think some type of background in graphic design would be useful.  On the flip side, to take control of flash you need to understand actionscript, so a programming background may very well be useful as well.  You seem to ask LOTS of questions, but aren't really grasping anything. I've said numerous times that you need to just slow down and learn one thing at a time.  If you are going to be in web design, you need to first learn to properly set up a page in HTML and CSS.  If you understand the basic fundamentals of programming (like you say you do), then stick with one language to get by.  PHP is widely available on multiple platforms, it is a language specifically designed for the web, so why not just stick with mastering that. 

[zq29]

And remember, learning is not just messing around with something for a few weeks. Proper learning takes years. Having two weeks worth of knowledge in a language is not going to get you anywhere.

[redbullmarky]

and once you've learnt everything there is to know, boredom sets in - then you move to something else and realised that you probably wasted your time learning instead of doing something practical.

"those who can, can. those who can't, they teach"

[KevinM1]

I don't know if it's my place to say anything, but I'm bored, so why not? ;P

businessman, I have two very important words that I think you should heed: [b]Chill.  Out.[/b]

You don't need to cram your head silly with everything under the sun all at once.  Hell, I'm in a similar boat as you, learning on my own at home.  I fell into the same trap you're in now...a lot of these technologies rely or use other technologies to work, so where should I go next?  What's XHTML without CSS?  PHP without MySQL?  Or AJAX without JSON?  And, like you, I tried cramming my head with everything all at once.  And, ultimately, I learned nothing.

You need to structure your learning.  What do you know?  What do you know [b]well[/b]?  If you know something really well, then learn the technologies/languages associated with it.  If you're comfortable with MySQL, try PHP.  Good at JavaScript?  Try doing some object oriented stuff with it.

I think it's also important that you realize that memorization is not the same as learning.  Being able to recite all the built-in PHP functions in alphabetical order may be a neat trick, but what's really important is knowing what they do and when to use them.  I doubt anyone here has memorized every bit of PHP, but I don't doubt that, if they run into a problem, they can either lookup the proper function to use or create one themselves.

Finally, you've got to pace yourself.  Like others have said, doing nothing but studying and coding in the hopes of becoming Master of the Universe is self-defeating.  You've got to give your brain a chance to rest.  Something that helps me is playing video games on my PS2 (I like to stay away from the PC during my relaxing).  I find that I not only become reinvigorated while kicking the snot out of the AI in Tekken (gotta release that frustration), but my brain still works on whatever I'm learning in the background during play anyway.

In closing, just relax, man.  The world won't stop spinning if you don't become an ace programmer tomorrow.

[redbullmarky]

it's an open forum, so course it's your place  ;)

i actually couldnt agree with you more or put it better myself. the words "chill out" seem to be cropping up very often, so maybe it should be noted....

[Ninjakreborn]

You must have everything wrong.

I am a web developer, you seem to want to stunt people who seek knowledge.
I don't care what anyone say's there is nothing wrong with continuing to learn, if you had not of heard me in my career, I made a lot of major career choices lately.

I stopped trying to do graphic/design, layout/design, content writing
I have a friend who has ton's of experience, we are helping each other in a partner sort of way.

As for the rest I am interested in other forms of web development, coding in css/xhtml
programming
general web design, coding, programming
I still do everything, I get the project, do all the planning, send the specs to him for a picture of a logo/layout
I code/program organize everything, adn I do the content, the send it to him to proofread.  Granted it might have been hard trying to master graphic design/photography and still keep my knowledge in other areas mastered.
I also know full well everything you said I didn' tknow, I sometimes get back into research, I study I ask questions to see what other people know, maybe there were things about something i didn't know.

[jcombs_31]

you really don't even make sense when you talk.  Right, we are all telling you to stop learning.  I see you also have great reading comprehension skills.

[KevinM1]

[quote author=businessman332211 link=topic=110237.msg451333#msg451333 date=1160741675]
You must have everything wrong.

I am a web developer, you seem to want to stunt people who seek knowledge.
I don't care what anyone say's there is nothing wrong with continuing to learn, if you had not of heard me in my career, I made a lot of major career choices lately.

I stopped trying to do graphic/design, layout/design, content writing
I have a friend who has ton's of experience, we are helping each other in a partner sort of way.

As for the rest I am interested in other forms of web development, coding in css/xhtml
programming
general web design, coding, programming
I still do everything, I get the project, do all the planning, send the specs to him for a picture of a logo/layout
I code/program organize everything, adn I do the content, the send it to him to proofread.  Granted it might have been hard trying to master graphic design/photography and still keep my knowledge in other areas mastered.
I also know full well everything you said I didn' tknow, I sometimes get back into research, I study I ask questions to see what other people know, maybe there were things about something i didn't know.
[/quote]

Am I the only one thinking there's a language barrier problem here?

And, businessman, with all due respect, how can anyone here be categorized as wanting to stunt people who seek knowledge when they're volunteering their time to post on this board?  I've seen nothing but great patience with the other members here as they've given you a lot of advice over and over again.  That you very rarely follow through with their advice, resulting in frustrating the people who are trying to help you, is [b]your[/b] problem, not theirs.

No one is saying that you shouldn't learn.  What they're (we're) saying is that you should pace yourself.  A professional knows their strengths and limitations, not just with their skillset, but with [b]how[/b] they learn and [b]how much[/b] they can learn in a given time.  I think it's pretty obvious that you're pushing yourself too hard.  Like I said before, you don't need to learn all of this stuff all at once.

Since you call yourself a businessman, acting like a professional is in your best interest.  Ironically, you've acted anything but professional to this point.  Yes, you've asked questions.  Many questions.  And others have given you advice as a response.  What do you do in return?  You ignore it.  They repeat their advice, and you still ignore it.  When they offer constructive, if occassionally blunt, criticism you either ignore it outright or make statements (like the ones that started your last message) saying that they are mean and don't like you or that they're stifling your growth.

And no, none of this has [b]anything[/b] to do with your graphic design problems.  I know others have said that they're not particularly good at graphic design.  I'm not good at it either.  It's a moot point.  What this [b]is[/b] about is your insistance in thinking that everyone here is either wrong or mean when they don't pat you on the back or when they get frustrated with you asking the [b]same[/b] questions over and over again.

Being a businessman, a true businessman, does not mean acting like a petulant child.  Yes, criticism can hurt, especially when you know you put a 100% effort into something.  But this is the real world now.  It's either sink or swim.  If you cannot handle criticism, if you will not heed the advice of your contemporaries, then you're not a businessman.  You're a guy with a hobby who has a fragile ego.

Please take this advice in the spirit in which it is intended.  Like I said before, I'm in a similar situation as you, so I do want to see you succeed.

[Ninjakreborn]

Your right, maybe I should slow down, but you can't say I don't know anything.
XHTML, CSS(few problems with it), php, mysql, javascript
I have mastered all of these langauges, I don't know everything about them, of course I sometimes ask questions, but in general I can do a lot with them.

I have learnt quite a bit of perl, python, command line(linux), and countless other things (seo, submission, and various other things.

I expand my knowledge, because I can.

I hate to see when someone get's to a point they don't pursue any other languages, or trying to do anything for learning.

You say jack of all trades, master of none, that's far from true.
Trying to learn too much is hard, it takes me awhile but I decide on my limits, when the time comes, I now know enough about logo's, layout's, to be able to occassionally have fun building them, but instead of getting deeper, deeper into it right now, I turned it over to someone else, and have a good arrangement for that, so I can concentrate most of my effort on coding/programming, and other web related stuff.


I also read that last post, thanks.

I will try to slow down, as far as programming/coding, I am delving totally into it, because I am becoming obsesses.
I can't stop programming, I look at these languages, perl, python, and I start getting into it, and I feel so much power.

Programming is one of the greatest things I have ever done.

RIght now I do coding(css, xhtml), and programming.
I bear other aspects as well, like seo, optimization, I am not the best at them, but I know how to do them with some pretty good results.

I did C++ for 15 minutes, and I loved it.  It was the best, and funnest language I ever worked with, I don't have a lot of time for other languages now, I am doing 90% of my time in php/mysql.
I do know that once you know mysql, you can go to  any other database platform, on my own test host, I went and bought a nother host for testing purposes, I have tried my same website in

Oracle(It was included on my friends host), postgresql, OSDB, peardb, mssql, msaccess

I didn't get so heavy into these i memorizes all there specific functions, but I can say, if I was given any project, at all with any database system involved, I could either use it, or figure it out very quickly.

I wouldn't be an expert at them, I am not even an expert at mysql, but I am learning a lot more than I use to know.

Most things I wasn't wanting to master just feel comfortable doing the basics, like the graphic design stuff, I got comfortable then I stopped.

Actionscript, I have 2 people now who are masters at "flash" and they do some actionscript, I am a programming so actionscript will be easy to pick up, then when I combine my skills with those people, it will be amazing

I will slow down some, it's just I get frustrated now, after all this time, when I run into something I can't do.

[ober]

1) You're not even listening to what anyone is saying
2) You have not "mastered" any language.  I think Barand may be one of the best at PHP on this board and I still wouldn't say he's "mastered" the language.  I've been around the block with PHP and back.  I feel I know the language pretty good, but there's no way in hell I would EVER claim to have "mastered" a language.
3) You're all talk... and jumbled talk at that.  You say that you're soooo good at all this stuff, yet you ask more questions than ANYONE on these boards... by double.  Look at the freakin forum stats if you don't believe me.

I realize I should probably delete all that and walk away from this thread, but I'm tired of listening to all this BS.  All you do is talk about what you want to be and do.  I have yet to see any proof that you're getting there.

[Ninjakreborn]

Sorry you feel that way.
I don't claim to know all these langauges.

When I say mastered, I don't mean it in that context, I mean I can pick up any of those languages and do anything with them.
Whether I have to ask questions or not doesn't matter, I can still do the stuff, even with a little guidance.

With the exception of CSS, I am starting to understand just how weak I am at CSS, and I am trying to improve that, I have a lot of layouts to code over the next few weeks, so I can only get better with that.

[effigy]

[quote]When I say mastered, I don't mean it in that context, I mean I can pick up any of those languages and do anything with them.[/quote]

Programmers who have a knack for learning can do the same thing. I think one of the biggest factors of learning, not only in the computer world, but in life, is done by conceptual thinking. I've learned about the fundamental concepts--variables, arrays, hashes, pattern matching, etc.--and those always stay with me. It's a matter of learning [i]how[/i] they are handled in another form. As said before, I'd be careful about using the word "mastered."

[ober]

>>I don't claim to know all these langauges.

Oh but you do.

>>When I say mastered, I don't mean it in that context, I mean I can pick up any of those languages and do anything with them

Oh how you contradict yourself.

[Ninjakreborn]

Maybe you are right, maybe I am looking at it wrong.

I apologize.

I know enough about them, to get around.

WIth some effort, thinking, and help from other's I seem to be able to get past any type's of problems I encounter with the languages I know, maybe that is a better, more accurate way to put it.

The graphic design, I admit, I wasn't cut out to be a graphic designer, and as far as not taking your advice, I try my best, it takes me awhile to admit I was wrong, but I always try to listen, I ultimately listened to all the advice about getting a graphic designer partner, I might ahve had to learn the hard way a little but ultimately I took all the advice.

[redbullmarky]

hmm i hate the idea of feeling like a bully, like rounding on a "victim", but in this case it's unavoidable.

BM, as you're so philosophical, maybe you should consider the following (very famous) saying: "Actions speak louder than words." Very very rarely have you come back with something that shoves our doubts back up our arses and proves us wrong. Are we being harsh? Nah...just realistic. and you do ask, after all.

I've never personally known anyone so ignorant of help. You ask a question. It trails of a little. So you open another thread, closely related. Then you reply to someone elses thread saying "yeah, i had this problem too - look at my thread". and then, when you've totally ignored advice and as a result get hammered for it, you set up yet another thread asking "should i end my career? am i cut out for this?" - a thread which people advise you very critically, normally ending with something like "yes, i will do that!". then it's all back to square one.

as ober said - kudos to Barand, one of the most experienced and knowledgable around these parts. I've actually looked at his code, and would say that in some cases, I think I could better it.However, in most ways, he'd wipe the floor clean we me. Same goes for ober, AndyB, obsidian, jcombs, Jenk, etc - some things i think i think i could do better (IMHumbleO), but mostly i'd be sitting back learning from these chaps. My point? No one is the master. Being the master of something means complacency - complacency means you will eventually be grounded. Being the master means being at the top of your game - being at the top of your game means you have nothing left to aim for.

You also state that you have no time to redo your site for another 12-18 months, or whatever. So:
a) what was the point in asking for critique if you're not gonna do anything about it?
b) With all the time it takes you to write all your questions, I could have rewritten your site several times over. It would get hammered if I posted it in web critique - but not as much as yours does at the moment.

So do yourself a favour - go away and do something that will show us that our help has not been in vain. Mostly I like you - your enthusiasm is great - but other than that, there's nothing there but talk.

[Ninjakreborn]

My site itself, I am rebuilding soon, I am getting plans together now, it will be totally rebuilt here in about 2 weeks, I have to get some stuff together, and organized a few ideas, hten I am going to start building it, while i work on my other projects.