The Little Guy Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9231407/Google_s_dump_IE8_move_backs_Windows_XP_users_into_corner It looks like anyone who uses a browser <= IE8 will no longer be able to use Google's products... At least not to their full potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scootstah Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessica Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I'm surprised they're including 8 already. And also, why not just drop support completely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Little Guy Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 why not just drop support completely? +1 The only thing I like about IE, is that it displays cleaner css3 stuff (rounded corners, gradients, etc.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scootstah Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 The only thing I like about IE, is that it displays cleaner css3 stuff (rounded corners, gradients, etc.) Yea, gotta love those squares that it displays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I'm surprised they're including 8 already. And also, why not just drop support completely? Are you asking why they wouldn't just drop support completely for IE? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessica Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I'm surprised they're including 8 already. And also, why not just drop support completely? Are you asking why they wouldn't just drop support completely for IE? Yes. They have Chrome, plus how many people using Google's services besides search and MAYBE maps (I'm thinking docs/drive, etc) are using IE anything? Has the latest IE exploit that affected all versions been fixed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scootstah Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Yeah, but all of IE together is still a decent chunk of market share. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Yes. They have Chrome, plus how many people using Google's services besides search and MAYBE maps (I'm thinking docs/drive, etc) are using IE anything? Has the latest IE exploit that affected all versions been fixed? Just cuz they have Chrome doesn't mean everyone is going to use it. A lot of businesses use IE, which I'd imagine a majority of their Google Apps (business/education) users are using a version of IE. As much as I'd love to be able to drop IE as well, (a) it has gotten better over the years and (b) it's still roughly 30% of the market share (that's the average for a lot of our clients at least - a diverse set of clients at that.) That's way too high to be able to drop altogether. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessica Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I agree in theory, I just think if you're dropping support for anything less than 9, you're already dropping it for a majority of your IE users. I'm sure they ran all their own analytics on it though before making that decision Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Little Guy Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 The only thing I like about IE, is that it displays cleaner css3 stuff (rounded corners, gradients, etc.) Yea, gotta love those squares that it displays. I don't know what your talking about... I see rounded corners... anyway... I decided to load my site in IE, and the main content doesn't show up, viewed the source to see if it was in there, and nope it is gone from there too! Viewed it in chrome / FF and its fine... oh IE... My new Poll doesn't show too... Maybe one reason no one voted for IE... because they can't see it... haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.josh Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I think people need to stop w/ the IE bashing. For real, that shit is getting old. Most of this hate is a relic from IE6 and somewhat from IE7. IE8 was a HUGE leap forward with MS getting with the program. IE9 is great, and IE10 will be better. I mean honestly, MS has gotten their shit together for quite a while now, there's really no reasonable argument to say "IE sucks" at this point, other than just regurgitating shit like it's 1999. At this point, the only thing that really sucks about IE is that so many people use older versions of it instead of upgrading, and who's fault is that? Of course, it's totally Microsoft's fault, because, Microsoft is evil and sucks. /rolleyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Little Guy Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 IE9 is great Then where did my content go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scootstah Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 The only thing I like about IE, is that it displays cleaner css3 stuff (rounded corners, gradients, etc.) Yea, gotta love those squares that it displays. I don't know what your talking about... I see rounded corners... Only in IE9. Other browsers had that stuff years ago. Check out http://caniuse.com. Firefox supports nearly everything all the way back to versions ~3-6. IE9 doesn't even support half of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.josh Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 IE9 is great Then where did my content go? Learn to program proper? Learn how to QA? It's a different product. Things will be slightly different. It's like opening a file in different text editors. If you are seriously running with the argument with "It works fine in Chrome but not in IE so IE must suck"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scootstah Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 If you are seriously running with the argument with "It works fine in Chrome but not in IE so IE must suck"... No, it's more like, "It works fine in every other browser ever, but not in IE..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.josh Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 If you are seriously running with the argument with "It works fine in Chrome but not in IE so IE must suck"... No, it's more like, "It works fine in every other browser ever, but not in IE..." But that's really not true anymore, except for catering to older versions of IE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.josh Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 My point is that it's simply not fair to keep blackballing IE, treating it like the redheaded stepchild nobody loves, because they have gotten their shit together and to a point where IE is currently on par with the other browsers. But again, it's not going to be exactly the same, there will never be some single magic wand line of code or html or css rule etc.. that will work with all browsers, because they are different products made by different companies (even though these days, most of the time there actually is). I have had PLENTY of "works in FF but not Chrome" issues, where I've had to tweak accordingly. Each browser has its caveats, because they are different browsers. And who gives a shit if Firefox or Chrome has been supporting feature xyz since version 1.0 alpha, and IE is "just now catching up...." you are missing the point that IE has caught up! People keep complaining about how IE sucks and what they are really complaining about is having to support older versions of IE! Please do not mistake me for an IE fanboy. My personal go-to browser is FireFox, though Philip is slowly but surely seducing me to use Chrome full-time. Once upon a time it was actually fair to say IE sucked. Now it's not. It's just that we, as developers, have to keep putting up with older versions of IE, because of users not upgrading. People who complain about IE still sucking...I mean really, I have to question how much client-side dev work you really do...because I mean just getting rid of IE6 support (even still supporting 7+) is a HUGE step forward, to the point that most professional devs will be more than happy if they could at least ditch IE6 support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scootstah Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 If you are seriously running with the argument with "It works fine in Chrome but not in IE so IE must suck"... No, it's more like, "It works fine in every other browser ever, but not in IE..." But that's really not true anymore, except for catering to older versions of IE! IE9 still doesn't support as many HTML5 or CSS3 features as other browsers. Plus, older versions of IE still represent the majority of IE's market share. Microsoft still fails to understand what updates mean. Chrome (and Firefox to a lesser extend) updates seamlessly and silently. But, IE is perfectly happy running a 10 year old version until the end of time. My point is that it's simply not fair to keep blackballing IE, treating it like the redheaded stepchild nobody loves, because they have gotten their shit together and to a point where IE is currently on par with the other browsers. That's fine, if that were true. And the fact that Microsoft does not force updates means we will be dealing with IE7 and 8 for many years to come. But again, it's not going to be exactly the same, there will never be some single magic wand line of code or html or css rule etc.. that will work with all browsers, because they are different products made by different companies (even though these days, most of the time there actually is). That's why entities such as W3C exist. Unfortunately, Microsoft flat out ignores it most of the time. I realize not every browser behaves exactly the same, but most of the major ones at least try. I have had PLENTY of "works in FF but not Chrome" issues, where I've had to tweak accordingly. As do I, but let's be honest here - the frequency at which that happens compared to IE is very minimal. I develop in Firefox, so most non-IE compatibility issues are with Chrome. It is usually a very minor problem, like something off by a few pixels. With IE, it's like, "oh my god my entire layout is obliterated". With Chrome it is typically a very simple fix, like a targeted media query to adjust a CSS style a little. With IE, it tends to be a bunch of hacky nonsense that just shouldn't happen. And who gives a shit if Firefox or Chrome has been supporting feature xyz since version 1.0 alpha, and IE is "just now catching up...." you are missing the point that IE has caught up! People keep complaining about how IE sucks and what they are really complaining about is having to support older versions of IE! Yeah, but that's the problem. It doesn't matter if IE10 supports HTML5 and CSS3 in its entirety, because IE8 and 9 don't...which is what 90% of the IE community will be using for several years. The fact that browsers like Firefox, Chrome, and Safari have supported these features for years means that someone using a slightly older version is probably not going to have issues. Sure, Microsoft is starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel. But they won't have a comparable product for many years until the vast majority of their user base is using an updated browser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Little Guy Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 My point is that it's simply not fair to keep blackballing IE, treating it like the redheaded stepchild nobody loves, because they have gotten their shit together and to a point where IE is currently on par with the other browsers. But again, it's not going to be exactly the same, there will never be some single magic wand line of code or html or css rule etc.. that will work with all browsers, because they are different products made by different companies (even though these days, most of the time there actually is). I have had PLENTY of "works in FF but not Chrome" issues, where I've had to tweak accordingly. Each browser has its caveats, because they are different browsers. And who gives a shit if Firefox or Chrome has been supporting feature xyz since version 1.0 alpha, and IE is "just now catching up...." you are missing the point that IE has caught up! People keep complaining about how IE sucks and what they are really complaining about is having to support older versions of IE! Please do not mistake me for an IE fanboy. My personal go-to browser is FireFox, though Philip is slowly but surely seducing me to use Chrome full-time. Once upon a time it was actually fair to say IE sucked. Now it's not. It's just that we, as developers, have to keep putting up with older versions of IE, because of users not upgrading. People who complain about IE still sucking...I mean really, I have to question how much client-side dev work you really do...because I mean just getting rid of IE6 support (even still supporting 7+) is a HUGE step forward, to the point that most professional devs will be more than happy if they could at least ditch IE6 support. I agree, but at what point do you stop supporting an IE version? IE could push out more updates if they removed it from the core of the OS and made it an install like Chrome/Firefox that would allow it to keep it up with other browsers better. Just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scootstah Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 My point is that it's simply not fair to keep blackballing IE, treating it like the redheaded stepchild nobody loves, because they have gotten their shit together and to a point where IE is currently on par with the other browsers. But again, it's not going to be exactly the same, there will never be some single magic wand line of code or html or css rule etc.. that will work with all browsers, because they are different products made by different companies (even though these days, most of the time there actually is). I have had PLENTY of "works in FF but not Chrome" issues, where I've had to tweak accordingly. Each browser has its caveats, because they are different browsers. And who gives a shit if Firefox or Chrome has been supporting feature xyz since version 1.0 alpha, and IE is "just now catching up...." you are missing the point that IE has caught up! People keep complaining about how IE sucks and what they are really complaining about is having to support older versions of IE! Please do not mistake me for an IE fanboy. My personal go-to browser is FireFox, though Philip is slowly but surely seducing me to use Chrome full-time. Once upon a time it was actually fair to say IE sucked. Now it's not. It's just that we, as developers, have to keep putting up with older versions of IE, because of users not upgrading. People who complain about IE still sucking...I mean really, I have to question how much client-side dev work you really do...because I mean just getting rid of IE6 support (even still supporting 7+) is a HUGE step forward, to the point that most professional devs will be more than happy if they could at least ditch IE6 support. I agree, but at what point do you stop supporting an IE version? IE could push out more updates if they removed it from the core of the OS and made it an install like Chrome/Firefox that would allow it to keep it up with other browsers better. Just my opinion. If you had to specifically download IE to use it, nobody would use it. People use IE because they are either too lazy to use something else, or they don't know anything else exists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I agree, but at what point do you stop supporting an IE version? IE could push out more updates if they removed it from the core of the OS and made it an install like Chrome/Firefox that would allow it to keep it up with other browsers better. Just my opinion. Either a certain % (usually for me anything below 10% is OK to drop) or if it is 2 versions old... which is exactly what Google is doing here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.josh Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I'm sorry, maybe I'm just the minority here, but I personally do NOT like companies FORCING me to upgrade to newer versions of their product! Even FF and Chrome do not FORCE you to do this, they simply have it as a default to auto-update seemlessly, and it's mostly because they have shorter development cycles, right? I'm sorry, but you can't really blame Microsoft for not FORCING people to update, and I personally would avoid a company that FORCES me to do it. This is me speaking as a USER. Yes, this makes my job as a developer harder, but should a company cater to developers, or to users? Think about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahngiel Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 At this point, the only thing that really sucks about IE is that so many people use older versions of it instead of upgrading, and who's fault is that? Of course, it's totally Microsoft's fault, because, Microsoft is evil and sucks. /rolleyes. It is indeed MS's fault. Why would you NOT have silent updates? Corporate IT departments have their systems on lock-down, which doesn't even allow users to upgrade to newer versions of IE! At least if MS had silent updates they could be batched in. BTW, jQuery is dropping IE8 too. I'm sorry, but you can't really blame Microsoft for not FORCING people to update, and I personally would avoid a company that FORCES me to do it. This is me speaking as a USER. The mere option would be beneficial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Yes, this makes my job as a developer harder, but should a company cater to developers, or to users? Think about it. Companies do cater for their users, but given it makes the developer's job harder, they have that urge to complain amongst fellow sufferers. I agree that IE9 has largely over come a lot of the old issues and I don't think it's a bad browser, but as others have said, the old issues haven't suddenly disappeared. People are still dealing with them daily, which is why people still get munk on about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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