PHP Developers Salary

[s0c0]

I'm only making 40k, but I had no previous work-related experience so or degree in CS (mine is in information technology).  So I took what I could get as a stepping stone.

[alxwm]

Thats cool, the way you make money, you all should be proud of it.. The great thing is that you live in such place where you can make this much, I make 14000 just counted, working in Estonia, here I am the best programmer - I can say so. How unfear, I wish to go to US, here in Estonia, nothing holds me.. I hope I will be there soon..

[rajivgonsalves]

well I make around 520,000 Indian rupees a years so you'll are pretty well ahead of me  , damm should of been in the US

[448191]

well I make around 520,000 Indian rupees a years so you'll are pretty well ahead of me  , damm should of been in the US

 

Don't forget that living in the Europe or the US is a LOT more expensive. I'm waiting for the government to tax the air that I breath...  :-X

[~n[EO]n~]

Don't forget that living in the Europe or the US is a LOT more expensive. I'm waiting for the government to tax the air that I breath...  :-X

 

LOL, very funny, I bet that will never happen...

 

2~3k /month will be enough i think, not too sure. I thought programmers in US & UK get around 150-200k / year.

[neylitalo]

n~ link=topic=139673.msg732293#msg732293 date=1194243516]

I thought programmers in US & UK get around 150-200k / year.

 

Only the very talented/lucky ones.

[~n[EO]n~]

Only the very talented/lucky ones.

 

you guys must be, you've answer to almost everything

[teng84]

well I make around 520,000 Indian rupees a years so you'll are pretty well ahead of me  , damm should of been in the US

 

Don't forget that living in the Europe or the US is a LOT more expensive. I'm waiting for the government to tax the air that I breath...  :-X

cost of living is expensive in all over the world

you expect your government to tax the air you breath well we're wait for our government to tax the SH*** that comes out in our as*

[cmgmyr]

well I make around 520,000 Indian rupees a years so you'll are pretty well ahead of me  , damm should of been in the US

 

Don't forget that living in the Europe or the US is a LOT more expensive. I'm waiting for the government to tax the air that I breath...  :-X

cost of living is expensive in all over the world

you expect your government to tax the air you breath well we're wait for our government to tax the SH*** that comes out in our as*

haha yeah pretty much

[nuxy]

PHP Developers gets paid about R 15-30K a month here is South Africa.

Not to much, but also, by far not little.

 

High-level programming languages such as C or an sysadmin job will get you round about R 20-50K a month.

Really depends on the company you are working for.

[obsidian]

n~ link=topic=139673.msg732293#msg732293 date=1194243516]

I thought programmers in US & UK get around 150-200k / year.

 

Only the very talented/lucky ones.

 

Wow... no kidding. I wouldn't mind being on the lower end of that, but I would have to more than double my income to reach that $150K mark... I think it also depends on the type of programming and what your area of expertise is. In my recent job search, it seemed that, for whatever reason, people who were hired on for C, C++ and C# were typically offered more than those writing in Java, VB or other languages, even if the job description was identical. I still can't figure that one out. My thought has always been that you pay someone based on their knowledge and quality of work, but oh, well.

[roopurt18]

My thought has always been that you pay someone based on their knowledge and quality of work, but oh, well.

I would argue that the average c / c++ developer might know more about programming than the average Java, PHP, etc. programmer.  Those languages require more work to accomplish many of the same tasks and you have to program very carefully to not make any memory mistakes.

[obsidian]

My thought has always been that you pay someone based on their knowledge and quality of work, but oh, well.

I would argue that the average c / c++ developer might know more about programming than the average Java, PHP, etc. programmer.  Those languages require more work to accomplish many of the same tasks and you have to program very carefully to not make any memory mistakes.

 

While that is true, technically speaking, you have some Java and yes, even PHP developers who are much more gifted and creative in their solutions than some C coders. I'd much rather pay someone based on their ability to think and their ability to use language X much more than I want to be stuck paying simply based on my language of choice.

[roopurt18]

I'd much rather pay someone based on their ability to think and their ability to use language X much more than I want to be stuck paying simply based on my language of choice.

I don't disagree, but the person who dictates the salary often has limited technical experience.  The world to them is simply losses and gains; they will always strive to pay as little as possible to get any project completed and honestly, none of them care how it was done as long as it works.  Considering that PHP and Java don't have as steep a learning curve as C or C++, it's no wonder the market is flooded with people that can use them.  So from the pure business standpoint of "This is my budget and this is what I need," why would anyone pay you $100k / year when they could pick up a freelancer that will work for much, much less?

 

Only in the rare cases where the project manager, company owner, etc. comes from a technical background do people really get paid what they're worth.

[Liquid Fire]

So from the pure business standpoint of "This is my budget and this is what I need," why would anyone pay you $100k / year when they could pick up a freelancer that will work for much, much less?

 

This is true but it is their loss because the code that a lot of freelancer(and even professional companies) put out is low quality.

[roopurt18]

This is true but it is their loss because the code that a lot of freelancer(and even professional companies) put out is low quality.

 

I'd have to disagree that it's their loss.  Sure the code is "low quality," but as long as it runs its not a problem.

 

Look at it from their point of view, any program requires the following:

* support

* updates

* maintenance

* improvement

 

It really doesn't matter how flawlessly designed a system is, you will always have to go back to it.  Smart business people will budget for the cost incurred of doing this, much like retail stores will budget for a certain percentage of merchandise to be shop lifted.  So let me pose a couple scenarios to you:

 

Let's say two coders bid on a project, one is fairly novice and the other a seasoned veteran.  There is a good chance the veteran's bid will be higher.  Now the business-minded person is faced with two bids, one substantially smaller than the other.  They've already made a mental decision based on experience that you take the initial bid, multiply by (let's just say 1.3) for the extra cost of maintenance and adding additional features over the next few months.  Well the novice is still cheaper.

 

Now let's say one developer inherits another's project, a common scenario.  The new developer will always be inclined to say, "There is a lot of stuff that needs to be done before we can continue."  The business-minded person will always be inclined to coerce you into jerry-rigging what currently exists, since it is cheaper.

 

In all cases, the business-minded individual is only concerned with costs and gains, nothing more.  They never look at any of the code; the developer is the one that suffers through Hell because of a bad design, the business person still doesn't give a shit.  Most never will.

[teng84]

i agree with roopurt18...

 

last week one of the company here in my place ask for the help of developers and they told me like they will only pay 20k for that project but the system seems to abit complected so i said 40k and i even lower my price with  30-35k just to have a side line knowing that the project should cost about 50k.. but they said they cant afford my price so they will just contact the first developer who deisgn their existing site.. well the site works but the question is how it works... imagine use images to show chekboxes that is checked and unchecked store everything in cookies instead of post well i dont have a chance to view the codes but for sure it is bad..

 

I offer 35k for that site and even told them that i will change everything from scratch as the bonus but then they still chose to go with 20k that

well its the lost of the company and also mine ... for sure if they ask for upgrade hehe hell to them

[Liquid Fire]

This is true but it is their loss because the code that a lot of freelancer(and even professional companies) put out is low quality.

 

I'd have to disagree that it's their loss.  Sure the code is "low quality," but as long as it runs its not a problem.

 

Look at it from their point of view, any program requires the following:

* support

* updates

* maintenance

* improvement

 

It really doesn't matter how flawlessly designed a system is, you will always have to go back to it.  Smart business people will budget for the cost incurred of doing this, much like retail stores will budget for a certain percentage of merchandise to be shop lifted.  So let me pose a couple scenarios to you:

 

Let's say two coders bid on a project, one is fairly novice and the other a seasoned veteran.  There is a good chance the veteran's bid will be higher.  Now the business-minded person is faced with two bids, one substantially smaller than the other.  They've already made a mental decision based on experience that you take the initial bid, multiply by (let's just say 1.3) for the extra cost of maintenance and adding additional features over the next few months.  Well the novice is still cheaper.

 

Now let's say one developer inherits another's project, a common scenario.  The new developer will always be inclined to say, "There is a lot of stuff that needs to be done before we can continue."  The business-minded person will always be inclined to coerce you into jerry-rigging what currently exists, since it is cheaper.

 

In all cases, the business-minded individual is only concerned with costs and gains, nothing more.  They never look at any of the code; the developer is the one that suffers through Hell because of a bad design, the business person still doesn't give a shit.  Most never will.

 

Well it is true that the business-minded people will think about cost and gain, it is not always cheaper to go with crappy code and jerry-rigging stuff.  Now going with crappy code and jerry-rigging stuff may be cheaper at first maintaining and improvements will almost always take longer than maintaining and improving a well design system. 

 

I mean when i got my new job doing php development i was throw into a system that was just the biggest piece of shit i have ever seen.  I of course had to work with it because we had no time to design a new system.  Some of the stuff the took me days could have only taken me hours if the system was designed correctly.  This lead to less improvements which lead to less productivity from the users that use the system which in the end effects profits. 

 

We just recently hired a company to develop our new website and well there code main be better than the old code, there code is still pretty bad to understand.  I mean we must have spent days trying to figure out a number of problem because of the design of the code.  We were going to use them for another site we have but decided not to because of the quality of code they gave us, and this is a professional company that said they know web design and development solid(they designing is not that bad, but they kinda suck as OOP programmer IMO).

 

I'd have to disagree that it's their loss

This tells me that you think is it better to use crappier code if it is cheaper than well designed code that cost more.  If that is true please explain that to me.

 

When i say it is their loss i mean that crappy code increases the time to output features and fixes from the developer so in the long run you get less productivity.

[roopurt18]

I'd have to disagree that it's their loss

This tells me that you think is it better to use crappier code if it is cheaper than well designed code that cost more.  If that is true please explain that to me.

I always think its better to use efficient, well designed code for the exact reasons you point out: it's easier to update, maintain, support, expand, etc.

 

 

However, it is still not their loss to go with crappier code at an initially cheaper cost, even though it likely costs them more in the long run.  Like I said, they budget for additional time on top of what any developer tells them simply because they know every software system will always need to be revisited.  As long as they stay within their budget and time constraints, they haven't lost anything.

 

Also consider this.  A large initial bid from a seasoned veteran vs. a cheaper bid from Joe Coder for what the company considers a prototype system, i.e. a test to see if there is market interest.  Of course they go with the cheaper guy (again) because if the system flops or the market has no interest, they've only lost a small portion of time and money.

 

Going back to who the loser is, it's the perfectionist.  I don't have to tell you how much lost time and frustration muddling through someone else's bad code has cost me, I'm sure you've been there.  The good coders are the losers.

 

Tell me how many times this scenario has been played out:

Coder: "Well, I've looked at the code and its pretty bad.  Now, the proper way to fix it is to do ABC, which I think will take 2 to 3 weeks."

Manager: "Hmmm...that's quite a while, any way we can speed that up."

Coder: <shudders> "I suppose if I do XYZ instead of ABC it'll buy us some time and work, but it's just a band aid solution."

Manager: "How long does that take?"

Coder: <reluctantly> "A couple days..."

Manager: "Do that and then we'll worry about it again when we have to."

 

The coder is the one that suffers; they feel disheartened that the program "isn't all it could be."  The business person lives on in blissful ignorance.

 

The trick to the whole thing that I'm learning is unless the program is your brain-child, i.e. if your just an employee in a company, stop beating yourself up over stupid decisions made by management.

[GingerRobot]

The trick to the whole thing that I'm learning is unless the program is your brain-child, i.e. if your just an employee in a company, stop beating yourself up over stupid decisions made by management.

 

Definitely. No point worrying about something you can't change.

 

On the (sort of) subject of salaries, i went to an interview at Imperial College London yesterday (it's a universtiy, if you didn't know). During a presentation, they mentioned that one of the companies that takes 2nd year students from Imperial on work placements pay them around £19,000 for a 6 month internship, which works out as being able to pay off most of my student debt, and is also just under the average annual starting salary for Imperial graduates - which already has the highest average starting salary for graduates of any UK universtiy.

 

I think it was about then when i really decided i could put up with living in London for 4 years!

[teng84]

@roopurt18

what i mean by their loss is that they don't get me as their developer like i mentioned before i offer low price for that project.. even though the other developer offers lower price than me they can rely on my work..

 

i also encounter bad coding structure where in i have to study the codes for 2 days and reformat the codes in one week meaning i lost 8 days before i finally deal with the new project and that is what im trying to tell them .. now their system might work flawlessly but if ever they will hire for a new progammer for the upgrade of that system well its their nightmare

 

so it is both our lost i don't get their money and the company get bad system structure

[slapme]

You guys are makin pretty good money

[karltanav]

pretty interesting

[mejpark]

I'm about to start my first PHP/MySQL contract @ £20/hour for 3 months

 

I'm certainly no expert in these languages, but I believe I can implement what they are looking for using open source libraries, helper classes and so forth.  Either that, or I'm screwed, lol.

[goldfiles]

I hate looking through the classifieds section of the newspaper and selling all .NET jobs.