Whats with the hate of vista?

[PugJr]

I haven't heard any specific hate to vista in phpfreaks.com but certain places act like vista is worse than most OSes.

 

I like vista, lets you have more RAM (Well, consumes more but raises the cap on it.). Also, I'm not sure if anyone else has noticed this or if its just my imagination, but do internet pages seem to load faster with it? I recently reformatted from XP to Vista and everything seems to be faster (Except computer games.).

 

The greatest feature of Vista is the computer score rating. I loved it when I got a 1.0 on gaming graphics. I think the system is 1.0-10.

 

So what is the big hate over vista? I really don't see whats so bad with it. (Excluding that older things (Not like DOS old but like win2000 old) don't seem to run to effectivly. Well and also the occasional pop-up from the O.S. saying something and that it takes 10 GBs to install the O.S. but HD space is cheap.)

[Daniel0]

It's because it's cool amongst the kids to bash anything Microsoft.

[Axeia]

It's because when it was just out (nearly 3 years ago?) RAM was still expensive and people tried to run on their back then already 2 year old systems.

Vista if not giving a LOT of RAM really performs poor, first bad impression stuck around and then ye like the above post said, it became cool to hate it.

 

Don't worry though, everyone seems ecstatic about Windows 7 which is pretty much the same thing, but now their hardware is better and the requirements are a bit lower so it's the perfect OS all of a sudden.

[.josh]

Also format and fresh install will seem faster if you don't do regular maintenance, like defrag your hd, get rid of old/unused registry entries, etc...

[Ken2k7]

Other than the Zune, Microsoft products just plain out sucks IMO. The OS is too big, too slow, too many problems with spywares, adwares, etc, and uses up too much RAM. I only keep Windows XP on VirtualBox just for IE 7 testing when I have to do CSS layouts. And Vista is like 5x the size of XP. :-\

[nrg_alpha]

Other than the Zune, Microsoft products just plain out sucks IMO. The OS is too big, too slow, too many problems with spywares, adwares, etc, and uses up too much RAM. I only keep Windows XP on VirtualBox just for IE 7 testing when I have to do CSS layouts. And Vista is like 5x the size of XP. :-\

 

I can't technically bash Vista, as I don't use it.. but yeah, I've heard enough complaints about it. I certainly share your sentiment about MS products blowing in general.. between stuff like their browsers and xbox360's red ring of death (of which I was a victim [but to Microsoft's credit, they replaced it in 2 days.. I was shocked at how fast and easy it was]), I think MS' image is definitely tarnished (and for some, perhaps rightfully so, depending on who you talk to I suppose).

 

I do think that MS is starting to head in a better direction (slowly but surely). I am hearing positive impressions about Windows 7, the Zune HD looks really slick, Bing, while not a game changer by any stretch, is heading in the right direction IMO (their best search engine efforts thus far IMO), and IE finally 'getting there [but not quite there yet, much like Bing]' as well.

 

But yeah, I don't use Vista and don't plan on it (not because of the negative press it received, but because Win 7 is coming soon.. so I would rather just upgrade to newer hardware and install Win 7 when the time is right.

 

EDIT - Speaking Zune, some Family Guy humor. 

[.josh]

I have vista 32 on my laptop and vista 64 on my desktop.  Other than it constantly asking for permission to do every gd thing, I haven't had any more issue with it than any other windows version.  As I have said many times and it is my sig-list, stop illegally downloading music, warez, pron, etc.. and I guarantee 99% of your windows "bugs" will disappear. 

[PugJr]

My computer isn't exactly spot on new anyways and having 1 GB of ram is what people would have had a few years back anyways, correct?

 

But CV does have a valid point about that reformatting would make my computer faster, so yeah vista probably isn't any faster than XP.

 

Ken2k7, what OS do you suggest that beats XP/Vista for normal users? Vista is like the Mac OS of PC. Its so easy to use as all you have to do is install windows update and get all of your drivers.

[Daniel0]

I've been running Vista since it was released and I've never had any issues with it. If you're getting viruses or spyware you're just stupid (see CV's post). It's that simple. The other day I decided to install a spyware checker just for fun. It found one so-called "tracking cookie" from Doubleclick.com or whatever it's called. I don't regard the UAC thing as a valid argument because it can be turned off. Moreover, if you constantly get prompted you're doing something wrong. Normal day-to-day usage shouldn't result in a UAC prompt unless the software you use is poorly written. Next we have memory consumption. I don't know about you guys, but I buy my RAM with the intentions of using it. Unused RAM is wasted RAM. The reason why it uses more RAM than XP is that it caches a lot of things, but it gives it back if other programs need it.

 

Vista got some bad reputation because driver and software vendors were too slow to release upgrades, so in the beginning there was some BSOD issues and software compatibility issues.

 

There was also some confusion about the stickers that were put on computers. Basically, Microsoft had a different opinion than the consumers about what constitutes "working" and being "capable". Those two stickers would mean that it can run the core functionality, but without all the bells and whistles. Only the "certified" computers could do that.

 

When you say that "Microsoft products just plain out sucks", what do you base that on? Vista sucks, but you don't use it. Okay. It sucks because some people shouting loud say so and because it's different and I don't want to adapt. Zune is pretty good, Bing is not too bad either and IE is getting much better. There is not even any competition between MS Office and OO.o as far as I'm concerned. I hear people saying that Visual Studio is a great IDE well, and Windows 7 is generally regarded as a very good and stable OS although it's a only a release candidate. Then there are their research groups out of which come interesting products such as Surface. Yeah, I'd say they suck as well.

[Philip]

There was also some confusion about the stickers that were put on computers. Basically, Microsoft had a different opinion than the consumers about what constitutes "working" and being "capable". Those two stickers would mean that it can run the core functionality, but without all the bells and whistles. Only the "certified" computers could do that.

 

Yeah that was a pretty big deal, I completely forgot about it though. I still personally use Vista 64bit, and haven't had any problems in the year or so I've had it installed. I'm a fan of Aero & the glassy look, as long as you have the RAM to back it up.  As for startup times compared to XP. Man, my boot times in Vista are freakin fast - faster than XP ever was.

 

A bad first impression can kill anything, Vista is a great example of that.

[waynew]

I turned my UAD off and took off the shiney graphics.

 

Fixed.

 

I also use CCleaner to get rid of any crap lying around. I use a registry cleaner every now and again to clean out old entries. I defrag my drive every now and again and I perform the odd MalwareBytes scan (although I haven't gotten a virus/spyware in ages as I make sure that what I'm downloading is from a reputable source.)

 

If you look after your computer, it'll do just fine.

 

[KevinM1]

If you look after your computer, it'll do just fine.

 

Yup.  I have Vista, and have nothing to complain about.  My XBOX 360 has been fine in the year and a half I've had it so far (knock on wood ;-P).  I like Microsoft's IDE's (I use Visual Web Developer Express 2008, which is free).  I love C#.

 

There are definitely some things that I don't like about Microsoft (I still don't like IE, despite its improvements; XBOX Live points are a needless complexity in their marketplace system; MSDN documentation could use an editor or three), but I don't hate them.

[.josh]

There are definitely some things that I don't like about Microsoft (I still don't like IE, despite its improvements; XBOX Live points are a needless complexity in their marketplace system; MSDN documentation could use an editor or three), but I don't hate them.

 

Come on, you have to at least admit the web developer tool built-in to IE8 that mimics firebug is a godsend.

[KevinM1]

There are definitely some things that I don't like about Microsoft (I still don't like IE, despite its improvements; XBOX Live points are a needless complexity in their marketplace system; MSDN documentation could use an editor or three), but I don't hate them.

 

Come on, you have to at least admit the web developer tool built-in to IE8 that mimics firebug is a godsend.

 

True, dat.  I think I'm more irked by Microsoft's glacially slow acceptance of standards than anything else.  Then again, that could be my nightmares of trying to learn CSS during the days of IE 5.5 and 6 talking :shudder:

[.josh]

okay but understand where microsoft is coming from.  They are a giant.  They've been a giant for a long time.  Then all of a sudden out of nowhere, a couple little people decide they want a standard for shit, and then start bitching because MS is like who the fuck are you?  If anything, people should be conforming to MS's conventions.  Or even if they aren't the best, that's not really the point.  You can't just go up to a big ass corporation as a handful of nobodies and decide hey you wanna do this thing, now conform or you're a jerk.

 

Don't get me wrong...I do agree with the concept of standards.  But I also sympathize with Microsoft on that. At least, back in the day.  Like 99.999% of people used IE back in the day. Even today they are still the majority.  Why the hell should they have to conform to some standards written by a couple of small nobodies?  People should be conforming to them.  If I were in Microsoft's shoes, I would have interpreted this whole "let's all go by this standard right here" as people trying to cut into my business.  Which I'm sorry, IMO that's all this whole "standards" thing was in the beginning - an attempt to dethrone Microsoft and get a bigger piece of the pie.

 

Time and again I see people failing to look at it from other than a purely a coding perspective.  The world does not run on code.  You have to consider the politics of the situation.  This whole "standards" thing has never been about making life easier for coders.  The corporate guys with the cash don't give a shit about making things easier for the coders.  They never have and they never will.

 

It has always been about making other people larger players by making Microsoft a smaller player.  I have a lot of respect for Microsoft for even giving these other people the time of day, let alone conforming to so called standards.  As a developer, yes, I would like to see standardization.  It sucks that there is not.  But don't be blind.  It is not as simple as Microsoft not wanting to conform just because they are stupid or being dicks or <insert whatever>. 

 

Put yourself in microsoft's shoes (try to be serious about it too).  You're this big ass company and virtually everybody uses your stuff.  Other people see how successful you are and want to start up their own business similar to yours.  So let's say there's 5 mom and pop shops setup.  They have their own system.  They are small, etc.. now they get together and decide hey, it would be easier for us all if we all followed the same coding conventions, standards, etc..  yeah, easier for them because they are small.  So they put together some documents and give you a buzz and say "hey, we decided there should be standards, here they are, if you don't follow them then you suck and you're not getting with the program." 

 

I mean seriously, how would you react to that?  You dominate the market, and out of nowhere a couple nobodies are saying you need to change your shit or we'll start telling everybody you suck.  You'd be pretty damn pissed and you know it. 

[nrg_alpha]

If anything, people should be conforming to MS's conventions.  Or even if they aren't the best, that's not really the point.  You can't just go up to a big ass corporation as a handful of nobodies and decide hey you wanna do this thing, now conform or you're a jerk.

 

I disagree that people should conform to MS (no matter how large MS is / becomes [in the browser market I'm talking about specifically here...]). It's not the little people who create standards that are shaking things up IMO. It's the addition of newer competitive browsers that are more in line with those 'little standards people' that are causing a shakeup as far as I'm concerned, (granted, in all fairness, I don't think the shift of general users from IE to other browsers is due to those other browsers being more standards compliant..as I'm sure most regular Jane and John does don't care about such issues, but probably for additional browser features and speed and security that IE didn't / doesn't have... and with the webdev community clamoring for better standards, this certainly doesn't help out MS' cause either).

 

Without the crop of Firefox and friends, I think the web would most certainly have had to bend over for MS, as they would be pretty much the only mass-used browser.

[roopurt18]

My wife has Vista Home and it works just fine.  I turned off her UAC because it bothered her.  The only real complaint I have when I've used it is the smaller tree hierarchy in Windows Explorer because they added that extra crap on top.  I imagine if it were my OS though I'd be used to it by now.

 

MS is only a giant in terms of workstations and personal computers.  In the server market they're still way behind and likely always will be.  Their online presence is trumped by Google. 

 

A large section of Microsoft's PC market would disappear if games were released on *nix systems.

 

The business world is moving back towards the model of server-run software that is connected to by dumb clients (i.e. web browsers) so it could be in another five or ten years it doesn't matter what OS is installed throughout a company.

 

In terms of their products, no company, none whatsoever, can compete with MS programming IDEs.  If MS made a PHP IDE you can bet I'd buy that in a heartbeat.