Most programming manuals are god awful.

[keldorn]

Has anyone noticed this? Try picking up C#, or some other language. Where is the manual?

I like how PHP.net made their manual. Its easy to navigate, quick to read, there is no discractions. Good code examples. Its brilliant. Now try to pick up C#, C, python, ruby or something.. Prepare to for a 1 hour venture into a fucking complicated bullshit manual.

 

This is why everytime I try to learn a new language, I have to go threw stuff like this! It just make want to shoot myself! I quit! 

 

 

damn, anyone else feel like this?

Seriously though I can't learn from manuals like that. It just make me wanna give up trying to learn that language. 

sigh back to the php.. hehe

[trq]

Python's manual has always seemed pretty good to me. I do believe however that php has one of the best manuals around.

[PugJr]

Python's manual has always seemed pretty good to me. I do believe however that php has one of the best manuals around.

 

Also the reasoning behind that is PHP is probably the most easiest language to learn, not because of the manual, but just how it works is just simple compared to other languages.

 

Edit: Heh, my above sentence is very grammatically incorrect.

[Garethp]

I actually found the Python manual to be easier than the PHP one. It was more of a tutorial, which helped, as compared to just an encyclopedia of functions

[corbin]

Eh, I think a reference is more useful than a tutorial.  I guess for people starting out though it would be a lot easier.

[Daniel0]

That's because they're manuals. A manual is just supposed to tell you how something works. You don't learn how to fly by reading a plane's manual either. Maybe if you're already really good at flying you can pick up how to fly that particular plane using its manual, but with little or no experience flying that's not going to happen.

 

If you want to learn how to program, read a book.

[KevinM1]

C#'s online documentation is pretty good.  It needs better organization, but I've been able to find most of what I need in short order.

 

Link: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/67ef8sbd.aspx?ppud=4

[keldorn]

C#'s online documentation is pretty good.  It needs better organization, but I've been able to find most of what I need in short order.

 

Link: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/67ef8sbd.aspx?ppud=4

 

That actually looks decent without the javascript version.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/67ef8sbd(loband).aspx

 

But for a beginner its still not good for example take this,

 

string a = "Foo";

string b = "bar";

Console.Writeline("{0} {1}",a,b);

 

 

Okay too me I was thinking what the hell are the numbers? Noramlly in PHP we could things like echo "{$a} , {$b}" . Naturally I found the page for writeLine();  but it still a maze.  But I already am very good with php so it only took me minute more to figure out that {0} and {1} are indexes of a & b. So when you put the variables in the side of the method, they become arrays, (Or least maby you could think like that).

 

But for the complete noob there going to be absolutely lost Trying to figure out what {0} and {1} means.

I dunno maby it really helps you have experince.  The manuals are not designed for the noob in mind are they.

 

It also didn't take me long to figure out that

 

Console.Writeline('')  is like saying in PHP  $console->writeline(); 

Maby I should just consider myself lucky, a lot of people have to go to collage to learn this stuff. 

[Daniel0]

But for the complete noob there going to be absolutely lost

 

I doubt Microsoft's target audience are the complete noobs with no programming experience whatsoever.

[trq]

I would have to agree with Daniel, manuals aren't exactly intended for newcomers.

[ngreenwood6]

The manuals are simply just for reference. Once you understand how the programming language works you will think that the manuals for C# are awesome. I thought it was confusing at first but now that I know the language it seems so simple. Some of there examples are pretty bad still as a seasoned C# developer but all manuals are like that sometimes. And in your example:

 

string a = "Foo";

string b = "bar";

Console.Writeline("{0} {1}",a,b);

 

If you were to put a and b inside of the console.writeline it does not make them arrays. You can simply use concaetantion (or however you spell that). So here is an example:

 

string a = "Foo";
string b = "bar";
Console.Writeline(a+" "+b);

 

If you are trying to learn C# one of the suggestions that I would make is to pick up a book on Visual Basic. I know that sounds ridiculous but thats what I did. I found that visual basic books were more geared towards learning the language as c# books were geared towards extending your knowledge. Once you get the basics for how to program then switch to c# and you will see that you can pick it up alot faster. The cool thing about .NET languages is that they can be used in conjunction with each other. So if you create a class in vb.net you can then use that same class in c#.net, pretty awesome IMO. I just dont like vb because it doesnt seem to conform to other languages (i dont like the syntax).

[keldorn]

You couldn't imagine it as an array?

Say this

string a = "foo";
string b = "bar";
Console.Writeline("{0} {1},a,b);

 

That will create an array like this,

array =>(
     [0] foo
     [1] bar
)

 

Or should I just get that kind of thinking out of my head right now? 

 

 

 

I think what Microsoft should however is buy a domain like csharpemanual.net and make  clean readable and nice manual website like how PHP.net is organized. That would be god send, becuase I dont know how anyone can read that "library" thing they have made. Its horrendous.

 

 

[ngreenwood6]

I think what Microsoft should however is buy a domain like csharpemanual.net and make  clean readable and nice manual website like how PHP.net is organized. That would be god send, becuase I dont know how anyone can read that "library" thing they have made. Its horrendous.

 

The manual is not actually that bad once you understand the language (I said the same thing when i was first learning it). The problem is that it is for a more advanced crowd of users. It only gives really basic examples and does more explaining of what it does rather than showing what it does.

 

You couldn't imagine it as an array?

 

I can kind of see how you could look at that as an array but if you think about it you do not assign arrays in methods. Writeline is a method of the Console class. Also there is no assignment there, meaning that you are not assigning the array to anything. Learning the programming language is a little bit of a curve from web programming but just remember the panes and info that you see as you are reading or even just playing in visual studio and it will all start to click. For instance if you look on the right side you will see a properties/events pane. So a button has a click "event". So when you want to create your own event you will know what it means. Same with properties its what makes up an object. One really useful feature is understanding the intellisense(pops up when you start typing). If you look next to the hints there is a small little icon. That icon tells you whether it is a property,method,event, etc. Can be really useful when you are programming.

 

If you have any questions feel free to ask I know c# pretty good.

[KevinM1]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see how the Console.WriteLine() example could be mistaken as something that creates an array, or has anything to do with arrays.

 

For one, arrays always use square brackets.  Two, given the arguments passed to WriteLine(), and how they're structured, it should immediately bring to mind sprintf().  Three (finally), dot notation should be familiar to anyone who has worked with JavaScript.

 

Like the others have said, language documentation isn't aimed towards absolute beginners.  It's not the documentation's job to teach people how to program.  Instead, it's to describe the language in question.  No more, no less.

 

I agree that the MSDN's site could be organized a bit better.  That said, I haven't had too many difficulties with it because of its search engine, which in my experience is better/more accurate than the PHP site's.