Making it a career.

[JasonLewis]

So I was at work tonight. Making pies in a pie factory and daydreaming about how much cooler it would be if I was a millionaire.

 

I'm only 19, so I've got plenty of years ahead of me still, but my aim at the moment is to experience as many different jobs as possible. Which is why I've spent a year in the Australian Army (was a GAP year, tough but fun) as an Artillery Gunner and I'm now working at Patties Pies making, well, pies.

 

My next goal is to work with DSE during the summer as a firefighter, but after that I want to look at working in the Web Design & Development Industry, at a firm here in the land down under.

 

I've always sort of looked at it as something that would be very competitive, which is why I stick to the occasional freelance job here and there. Has anyone worked in the industry? Preferably I'd be looking for a place that needs a PHP Programmer or anything Frontend as well.

[JonnoTheDev]

So I was at work tonight. Making pies in a pie factory and daydreaming about how much cooler it would be if I was a millionaire.

I have the same dream only it involves eating pies.

Has anyone worked in the industry?

There are lots of us here that do.

 

Keep checking the job websites in your country to see what is about. For some reason (with all the recession, credit crunch business) in the UK, companies are crying out for PHP / .NET / Java developers.

[JasonLewis]

Hah, well I'm quite over pies. I eat them way too much.

 

There are lots of us here that do.

 

So you work in the industry I take it?

 

Is it hard to get into? I was looking at a few firms in Melbourne and found this place called evolution7, and they have a few job positions (even though I won't be getting into the industry right now), but the way they list the requirements for the job.

 

Required:

 

- Expert OO/PHP skills

- Experience with at least one web framework such as Symfony, Zend, CakePHP, etc.

- Expert database/SQL skills

- Advanced Ajax/Javascript skills

- Passion for code

- 3-4+ years commercial experience (or world beating talent)

- Examples of your elegant and masterful code

- Positive, friendly and professional

- Can work independently or as part of a team

- Energy and enthusiasm!

 

Desired:

 

- Experience with prototype, script.aculo.us, & javascript frameworks

- Experience with XML/RSS web services

- Experience with version control / SVN

- Extra points for Flash Actionscript skills

- Relevant tertiary qualifications in multimedia/computer science

- Experience developing commercial websites and applications

 

It makes me evaluate myself. I consider myself reasonably fluent with PHP, but they say things like 3-4 years commercial experience (they also mention talent, thus assuming it's not required that you have worked in the industry).

 

From experience in the industry, when recruiting, do places look for people with prior industry experience, or do they prefer someone that proves they are capable with excellent folio of work?

[JonnoTheDev]

So you work in the industry I take it?

Yes

Is it hard to get into?

It depends on what roles you are looking for. If you are looking for a high salary then experience is key. However, if you are looking for more of a junior role on a lower salary where you could progress, I think that demonstrating some of your freelance work would be brilliant. Apart from the experience desired by compaines in job adverts don't be put off by the skills that they list i.e In the advert you posted they mention experience with at least one framework, why? If you understand OOP and are a competent programmer then you can pick up a framework in days.

Expert OO/PHP skills

How do you define expert. If you have created websites with PHP that are successful then you are skilled using PHP.

Expert database/SQL skills

Same as above.

 

I think that you just have to prove that you can adapt and become familiar with any technologies that are used in the company. i.e. If you have never used AJAX in your projects then there is no reason why you cannot pick it up very quickly. I use JS and AJAX sparingly, however if I was given a job where it is heavily required I can pick up a JS framework easily. Most job adverts I see just list all the technologies used on the web and say that they are desired. In truth this is not the case, they may use bits & pieces from different technologies but there is no way you need to be fluent in all.

[JasonLewis]

That clears a lot of things up. I get a bit worried when I see an advert and I think to myself, now I know I can use that technology, but am I an expert at it? It gives me doubt as to whether I would be capable in the industry. I guess the only thing I can do is give it a shot.

 

Does working in the industry take away the joys of it though?

[Philip]

Does working in the industry take away the joys of it though?

 

Nope, at least for me anyways. I work on websites for my employer and still enjoy working on personal/freelance ones after work.

[JonnoTheDev]

Does working in the industry take away the joys of it though?

Depends on the project you are working on. Its nice when you get a project where you may need to do a bit of research into something new, add to your repertoire, if it turns out useful you can use it again in other projects. You do get bored with some of the more common jobs, small websites, etc. Taking code from stock libraries and re-using over and over, but hey if it puts money in the bank and food on the table. Things like making blog sites, picture / video upload / galleries, working with forms I find mundane and boring.

I tend to focus more on SEO tools than websites as that is the backbone of our company.

[JasonLewis]

Sounds awesome, I've always wanted to get into the industry. Then again, I've always wanted to do heaps of different things.

[KevinM1]

I don't know how the economy is in Australia, but in the States things are pretty tight.  Competition is high and there are lots of very qualified people without jobs.  Freelancing may be your best option now, if your situation is similar.  At the very least you'll be making extra $$ and will gain some level of work experience.

 

Also, development is a very social job.  See if you can find a local geek lunch meeting, BarCamp meeting, or some other way to network with people in the business.  It's a good way to make professional contacts and at least throw your name in the pool.  And after, follow these guys on Facebook and/or Twitter and join in the meta conversation.  Even if you only listen to them, many will share great links that will help you as a developer.  Hell, I follow some guys just to follow the links they throw out there. 

 

Example: I'm working on a very simple slideshow navigation system for a graphic designer in exchange for graphics work on some of my other projects.  It's one of those image boxes that a lot of sites have (most sports sites, Gamespot, etc).  I have a prototype working, but want to be able to show the images in the order they were uploaded.  If it wasn't for Twitter, I wouldn't have known about linq.js, which will allow me to order the returning JSON object's image file information by the last modified date using LINQ-like syntax (say what you want about Microsoft and/or C#, but LINQ is pretty damn sweet).  It's going to save me a ton of time, and it's another tool for my toolbox in general.

 

So, get out there, be social, do freelance work in the meantime.

[JasonLewis]

Thanks for the post Nightslyr, very helpful.

[cags]

Just to offer up a fresh perspective. I'm also interested in doing this as a career, I'm degree educated (which frankly means squat in terms of knowledge, but it *should* demonstrate the capacity to learn) though not in web technologies per-se as it was a Computing Science degree. Over the last few months I've applied to maybe a dozen jobs in my region (East Midlands, UK), all of which have been for 'Junior Developer', all of which have said 'Must have 1-2 years commercial experience'. I've not heard back from a single one.

[trq]

May as well throw my few cents in. I'm Australian after all and also work in the industry. It wasn't always the way though and I guess I have just been really, really lucky.

 

I would say your level of experience is likely going to be more important depending on the company. And by that I mean web development companies are probably going to be allot more scrutinizing of your abilities. I went for a few jobs with web dev firms and never really got a look in. However I ended up landing a job within a large publishing company that happened to need a web developer. I guess what I'm saying is (without any commercial experience) you might be better to start looking at larger companies with there own small IT depts. We only have about 20 in our IT dept, and none of them have web dev experience. I believe these companies may be easier to crack. Given that noone at my work knows jack shit about the web.

 

I do however have a confession. I had already worked for this same company for almost 11 years beforehand, so they may just have been giving me a go. I also held a fairly good position before applying for the web dev job, so there may have already been some trust that I knew what I was doing. I'm on a good wage, dropped almost 20K to take this pose though. It was however quite the life change.

[JasonLewis]

I have heard of a few local places looking for a web dev, but I can't see a job like that in my area paying all too well. I'll need to get closer to Melbourne I think.

[JonnoTheDev]

I do however have a confession. I had already worked for this same company for almost 11 years beforehand, so they may just have been giving me a go. I also held a fairly good position before applying for the web dev job, so there may have already been some trust that I knew what I was doing. I'm on a good wage, dropped almost 20K to take this pose though. It was however quite the life change.

 

Mines a similar story. The company I now work for joined the synergy of companies that I was already part of. The oppertunity came up for me to transfer as I had the qualifications. Soon learnt the ropes with PHP and the rest of it. After a short period the company broke out of the group and we went it alone.

[trq]

I do however have a confession. I had already worked for this same company for almost 11 years beforehand, so they may just have been giving me a go. I also held a fairly good position before applying for the web dev job, so there may have already been some trust that I knew what I was doing. I'm on a good wage, dropped almost 20K to take this pose though. It was however quite the life change.

 

Mines a similar story. The company I now work for joined the synergy of companies that I was already part of. The oppertunity came up for me to transfer as I had the qualifications. Soon learnt the ropes with PHP and the rest of it. After a short period the company broke out of the group and we went it alone.

 

I wish I was programming more in PHP. Most of my work is fixing asp, or working in an environment called Jade. Jade sux. Its an entire platform written in Java that has its own scripting language which is a cross between sql, Python and VBScript. Its slow obviously though, because its just Java underneath. The only good thing it has is a completely OOP database.

 

I do get to create 'micro sites' in php though and spent a good part of the last 12 months developing a new framework and CMS in PHP.

 

The other thing I miss a great deal is Linux. Its a Windows company. I had to jump through allot of hoops just to get to use PHP. I do however have Cygwin installed on my box and my two dev servers, it helps.