[SOLVED] What do you think of these logo's for my new design, Which one is the best.

[obsidian]

out of curiosity, have you really studied other logos? there is a huge difference between a logo and a banner image. what you're showing couldn't be scaled down to use in letterhead or anything like that well at all. as andy tried to mention, your [i]logo[/i] is your trademark in some respects. it goes back to what i said earlier. is that image really what you want to use over and over as your trademark to other companies? if not, you really need to revisit it. think about logos for companies like Pepsi, AOL, Apple, BMW, VolksWagon, and the list goes on and on. most of those, you could see as a 20x20 pixel image and still know exactly what company it is. that is the kind of idea you want to hit for your logo. something that you could size down to be the favicon of your site, even. no, it doesn't have to be square or be quite that flexible, but at least a part of it should be. something that i was told about one of my first banners i posted on here for critique, i think applies to this image you've posted... it went something like: "that looks like a [i]hey, look! i just pirated photoshop and look at all these filters amature-esque banner[/i]... it just really doesn't [i]feel[/i] like a professional logo at all to me. the text doesn't appear to be part of the image, and the border and separated slogan cheapens it somewhat. on something as important as a logo, i'd definitely go with andy on this one and recommend you get a quote on something professional.

[Ninjakreborn]

I might for this one logo, I will see about it, but atleast I learnt something about photoshop, I may try a few more logo's here and there and see if I can come up with something.

[FrOzeN]

Logos are meant to be distinctive and fairly concise in size. Generally, a good logo can be recognized only by shape if shown in black & white.

A quick example I just made in photoshop:

[img]http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/2370/freelancerbusinessdd3.jpg[/img]

.. and after applying a filter:

[img]http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/1982/freelancerbusiness2ha7.jpg[/img]

As you can see, they're fairly straight forward and don't have much too them. I find it's good to keep a logo simple.
(You can use them if you want.)

[ataria]

I wouldn't consider them logo's....

[AndyB]

[quote author=ataria link=topic=109986.msg444228#msg444228 date=1159625373]
I wouldn't consider them logo's....
[/quote]

@ataria ... so, constructively, give examples of what you do consider to be logos.  That'll help this thread.

[obsidian]

ok, i may be shooting myself in the foot here because i'm horrid at graphic design, too, but why not go for something utterly simple to start with? you can always filter and adjust til your heart's content, but you really need to have a theme in mind first. here's something really simple i came up with using a globe. i'm not really too happy with the font choice, but then again, all i'm trying to do is get the idea of simplicity across... check out the attachment. i would even recommend you try to find an acceptable abbreviation to use in your logo instead of your full "Freelance Businessman." maybe something like FBM or such would work?

of course, if you were to use something similar to this, you'd want to colorize it and mod it to fit into a web design, but as you can see, it wouldn't make too bad of a letterhead, either ;)

[attachment deleted by admin]

[FrOzeN]

[quote author=ataria link=topic=109986.msg444228#msg444228 date=1159625373]
I wouldn't consider them logo's....
[/quote]I wouldn't consider those either, I was just demonstrating an example of the simplicity that should be involved in a logo.

[Ninjakreborn]

I was wondering, I built that logo, I did some work with it, I am going to learn how to burn the businessman word into the leather of the briefcase, and give the font in the sword an engraved affect.  It might be a beginner photoshop logo.  I can always build another one later, I just want one for my website, I am rewriting all the content on my new website, so I am putting in there, studying photoshop/graphic design, I will put I am not that good at it, so I will do it for a cheaper price until I get better, that will allow me to get some experience doing logo's for awhile, I might even do graphic design itself for free, alongw ith my other stuff until I get better.  The designing a layout, I think I have gotten good enough with that, to do a layout in photoshop, I am going to try some ideas later, right now I want to build a logo.  I want really opinions on this, I am no matter what building more logo's.  I am going to build quite a few more, some graphic, some text only, I am learning photoshop, but I am only right now trying to get a good logo for me.  Not an expert, graphic designer logo.  But something I can be proud of at my current photoshop/graphic design skill level, it doesn't have to be a master artists logo, I also kept reading what you people said about keeping it simple, so I did, for this one, I am going to work on some more logo's but I really like this one, even after building more, unless I Find out more that I like, I might end up keeping this one?  What do you think, you asked me about letterheads and everything else, I am goign to see what this looks like later changed over to black and white, but since I Created it and not anotehr graphic designer, I feel gooda bout it, my other logo wasn't that great, but another developer did it, he was just learning, and now I am just learning I want something good, atleast until I get my skills better and redesign my site again, in 6-7 months to a year when I am confident in some of my non-programming related abilities.

I am still doing more with this logo in case if I decide to use it, like the burnt affect into the leather as someone from here  mentioned earlier.  and the engraved affect into the sword, as I thought up earlier.  Also if I can come up with a good color for the bottom bar, I am going to fill that in, and change the text afffect there, and for the bottom text, I am deciding on a good font for it.  I might not use it, I might come up with something I like better, that'smore ismple, but if not I have something I think I can be happy with, I just want some advice on it, if it totally sucks ass, what can I do to make it better.  I have seen some logo's that use similar play on words, put to a picture background, and melded into the scene, it's not done yet, it's just the first draft where I got the picture of the lance head, and the briefcase, and put them where i wanted them, and created the backbone(so to speak) for the logo.  WIth what I have done there, I had learnt a lot, 10 times more than I previously knew,

[attachment deleted by admin]

[AndyB]

I don't think there's anything more we can teach you about logos.

[obsidian]

being blunt again (i seem to be doing that a lot recently): i don't think it will cut it at all for bringing customers in. it's not professional. if you're looking to get a professional presence, use a professional logo. the quote i mentioned above (the [i]look-at-all-these-filters[/i] one) still applies to this version. the glow on the text cheapens the effect, and the "sword" or "lance" or whatever it is really looks funny since it's not even clear what the object is. also, typically, your personal title (Web Designer/Coder/Programmer) isn't going to be part of your logo itself. often, even your slogan isn't part of your logo itself. it really takes up unnecessary space. there are a [b]ton[/b] of useful suggestions mentioned above that it seems you have ignored. really thoroughly read all the posts and see where your proposed logo doesn't fall into those suggestions, and i think you'll see what you can work on.

[Ninjakreborn]

So then a banner, and a logo are 2 totally different things.
I am starting to see that part now, I want both a banner, and logo for my site, but the logo wouldn't be the banner.  The logo would be hte actual name, or image, that I consider the logo, adn it should be something simple, most of the time something font only, or a play on words, something.  So I am going to create a simple logo, adn try to keep it simple, I am also going to create a banner, taht is more advanced, that has my 2 lines
making websites better one pixel at a time, and web designer/coder/programming

I will try to keep the slogans out of the logo, when I have the logo, I will be putting it up in the top left hand corner, sort of where phpfreaks logo is on there general banner.  Then my banner, is going to be 100% width, from one side of the page to another, something where I can somewhere put my 2 slogans, or my slogan, and title.  So the logo itself I am going to try and keep simple, am I starting to understand everything correctly???

[448191]

How about dropping the whole 'freelance bussinessman' name.

Personally I've found the name appalling since I read it. I didn't want to bring it up, but if you're going to invest time in designing a logo, I'd suggest to change your 'company' name first. I studied marketing for a short period of time, and I know a thing or two about external communication and brand names. That doesn't exactly make me an expert, but I can assure you this brand name is not going to attract customers.

Sorry if that rocks your world, it's just my opinion, you don't HAVE to do anything with it.

[redbullmarky]

@448191: totally agree with you there about the name thing. it does sound a little smug.

@frozen: as examples of logos, you did a good job and point well made

@ataria: if you want to dismiss someones effort to help, fine - but would be good to see what you can bring to the table

@businessssman: I cannot believe you are still not listening to people, after all the advice given. in answer to your other thread - "should I quit?" - my answer is now a definite yes, unless you can show some acknowledgment and appreciation for the help you are getting. you didn't even acknowledge the logos that frozen put up, as he obviously took out the time to help.
your waffle and lack of acknowledgment is getting very tiresome now.

[Ninjakreborn]

  I really do thank you all for the help.  I have been accepting advice, it's just I have so many ideas, I decided to come up with a theme, someone told me when you build a website create a general theme, and base everything including the logo around that theme.

  As far as freelance businessman, there is no way I would ever change from that, that name is permanent.  As for the logo's both of them put up, thank you, I really appreciate the help, it gave me something to look at, I know what I am going to do for a logo.

  Right now, I have spent almost 48 hours(except sleeping), looking at other websites and have an idea, for a general theme.  I have definitely picked the theme, I am slowly taking my time to learn how to do what I want to do in photoshop.  Right now, my actual website itself is going to have a white background.

  This is a website this time I am building totally from scratch, if it's not 100% perfect at the end where everyone likes it, atleast I know I did my best, and this is going to be taking almost everything, all of you said under consideration while still keeping my own ideas at hand.  I know how to design, I know how to do logo's I have built them before, and layouts, and clients were happy.  At this time I think most of it was I was trying to learn to fast, instead of keeping it simple, and I was being too picky for something I wanted.

  I have decided to use a general approach from now on, when building any website.  based on the intended audience, I am going to try to come up with a general theme, and color scheme and base everything I am doing around that theme.

  As for my website, I have decided on a theme, and I know now I am going to use that theme, I have decided on that.  I am using a general theme, I am using roughly 2 main colors for my website, aside from something I might come up with for form styling, lists, ex-cetera.

  My 2 main colors are white, and a mixture color of some form of brown.  The 2nd color is going to be some type of wood related gradient that I am going to create, as a process to make it look as good, and professional, and realistic as possible.  This white is going to be the general background color for the website, the 2nd gradient color is going to be the background color for the left navigation, top banner/logo area, and bottom navigation.  I am still creating a color idea for the basic content div in the middle.  I might also have a basic series of boxes below the left nav, for general information, and some on the right side of the content div, that will have some otehr information I decide to put.  Like a quick list for my portfolio, and some of my general skills, or services.

  For the banner, it's going to be background colored with that 2nd gradient I spoke of, the logo is going to be something as a lot of people here offered advice on, something simple.  Something primarily text, that can easily be pulled out and used for various things, yet is easy to remember.  Not something too complicated, but something I am however going to put some thought, time and effort into.  I might even make a few ideas, of various font's and font positioning, and find one that I end up liking the most.  I do know one main feature of the logo itself is definitely going to be colored so it looks like it's in some way burnt into the background wood, to look as if the text had been burnt there, but still heavily readable and definable to the human eye.

  Other than the logo, there will be an area on my banner, along the bottom line, I will have my 2 catch phrases.
"Making websites better 1 pixel at a time"
"Web designer/coder/programming";
those will be part of the banner itself, at the bottom, right along the bottom line.

  That is all that will be for the banner, omst of it will be that wooden gradient, maybe a search area at the top right, for something, just to take up some room, not sure yet.

  As for the left nav, it's going to have a background of the same 2nd gradient wooden texture.  For the navigation links, they are going to start off as a standard color, other than black.  Something that looks good with the wooden color, stands out well, but isn't black or brown in nature.  The hover for that imaged link, or text link is going to be something that looks like it goes from being it's original color, to being burnt into the wood behind it, sort of like the logo, with just a different affect.

  The navigation may be done in text, or possibly an image, depending on which one is going to give me the effect of it looking as if it is getting burnt into the background.

  The bottom navigation area is going to have a few of my basic links, like privacy policy, it's going to possibly have the same affect as the left nav.

  The middle content area, and the other 3 boxes(1 box below the left nav, for validation links(yes I want those), 1 box on the right side of the middle content, with a quick portfolio area, and 1 box below that, which will have either a quick list of services/skills, or some of my stronger, strong points.  The background colors for those I am still deciding on.

  This is what I have finally decided on, my own ideas, my own layouts, after looking throughout various sites, brainstorming for days, sorry for all the depression sounding stuff, it allways happens when I am brainstorming, but it got me through the process.  It wsa just harder for me, for my own website, because I have something specific I want.  Every word of advice offered on here was taken into account, and the advice was heavily headed, I appreciated it a lot. 

  As for general ideas, my name has to stay, I am definitely keeping my ethics page, but rewriting them.  I am removing a lot of the useless, and duplicate pages.  I am rewriting all the page content entirely, and adding a few pages, including doing some extra new work with the portfolio, there is a lot I want to do with the site, but the general ideas are done.

  Now I have to make the banner, make the logo like I want with the affect I want, make the text above the line, the create the idea for the layout in photoshop, and style the rollover links(which I will probably do in css instead of javascript.) once all of that is done I can start creating all my content, then coding the Xhtml/css after that.

[Ninjakreborn]

  Look, I have worked up some of the graphics in photoshop, and created a rough cut, 2 second coded version of part of the layout, just to show you a general idea for the banner, the logo area at the top left.  The left navigation, the rollover affect with just 1 image.

  Some of the images themselves are still needing worked on, the banner, at the top, has an area that looks wierd, and the left nav, above the top, has another area that looks wierd, the rollover images aren't aligned properly, but I just wanted to give you an idea of the direction I was heading to get advice if this is a good general idea.

  So again please understand in general, that this is not even close to what will be on my website, I just want to find out, if this idea itself is even substantial, or even worth continuing to pursue.  I liked my ideas, I liked where this is going.  Any advice would help, I am not done even close with the graphic design, and especially the coding, but for now, I set up something quick, something in like 2 seconds to get general directional advice.

  As far as the graphic design, I want the top of the banner to look a little more like the rest of it.
As for the left nav, I am wanting to get the top better blended with the banner.

Here are the photoshop settings I ended up going with for this.

[quote]Banner Background
create new, any size.
Select all
fill background color with
663300
texture-filter-noise-add noise (monochromatic, gaussian, 67 for the amount)

filter-blur-motion blur (90 degrees, and blur of 24 pixels


Logo
old english text-
blending options:
drop shadow – opacity 0
inner shadow- opacity 100


Slogans
Times new roman
size 30


Left Navigation Background
create new, any size.
Select all
fill background color with
663300
texture-filter-noise-add noise (monochromatic, gaussian, 67 for the amount)

filter-blur-motion blur (90 degrees, and blur of 24 pixels[/quote]

Those are just some notes I took while creating it, so I could remember what I did, to get what affects.   Below is the url

http://www.freelancebusinessman.com/temp/

[koolaidman52]

Upon first look I'm not a big fan. I think you are just trying too hard and missing the mark.

My thoughts:
As a webdesigner we all want to look like you are on the cutting edge, looking like you are trying to impress medievil kings is definitly no the cutting edge.

I think you schould try and be less dependent on graphics for now. I've made several designs for friends and school stuff (that usually don't get published but are more for practice) where I just go for the basic layout, then I do as much programming as possible before adding images where absolutely neccessary.

I think the key is going in having already made up your mind on the layout, changes can be made, but you're probably better off having at least something in mind.

[Ninjakreborn]

Well, I fixed a bunch of things in photoshop, with the images, and did a bunch with the buttons, I am uploading it now, to see what you think once I get the buttons all working.  I think I found what I want, I am touching up the images more, but I think, thanks to the advice of everyone here, I have found something I can be happy with for a few months/years, until my skills are good enough with graphic design/layout design to easily come up with something better.
After I align everything up, perfectly, and get the rollovers working, and everything looking good, and decreasing the size of the banner, layout out the rest of the page, I am going to lay it out on here for critique, if someone has any more advice on it so far, let me know, or way's I can make it better.

Thank you for everyone that helped me get pointed in this direction.

[Ninjakreborn]

Does anyone have advice on getting the images in there, and actually make them meld in with the background.
Any advice on that would help, I made it a specific way, but I am having trouble getting them aligned.

[akitchin]

after reading this thread all the way through, my advice is give up.  you do not have the artistic flair, style and sensibility it takes to design anything worthwhile.  if you yourself did not see anything wrong with any of your previous efforts, ESPECIALLY after EVERYONE gave you a TON of advice, i can safely say you are not designer material.  that's okay, a lot of programmers aren't.

that being said, a lot of programmers admit that they aren't and stick to programming.  they do not try, time and time again, to get a logo or banner for their site critiqued EVERYTIME.  this shows a total lack of judgement and confidence on your part, and is a fairly good indicator that you are trying to do something you're not exactly talented at.

i'm laying this right out because as mark said, we have been down this road a billion times before.  you are not cut out to be a designer.  you keep saying "well i hope to get to the point where maybe i could, at least try, to get a semi-decent logo or banner done for a client or something," but where does that leave the client?  they get utter crap that you'll "work on improving" and you've wasted both parties' time.  furthermore, if you yourself can't design your own site to client standards, what right do you have attempting it for clients?

i'm not going to re-hash the advice on logos.  this thread has been nearly a course's worth of information from everyone, and you haven't taken any of it into account.  even though you say you have and think you have, your total lack of progress indicates you haven't.  it's one thing to learn a lot about photoshop, what filters do what (generally filters shouldn't even be used until you've made competent designs without them), and the technical settings of a graphic.  it's another thing entirely to know what to do with them to yield an artistic design.

in summary, i'm just going to say one thing that i'm sure everyone is thinking: you don't have what it takes to design professionally, case closed.  leave it to the people that do, and focus on what you do well.

i'd apologise for my bluntness, but i think it's totally warranted.

[Ninjakreborn]

  No, I am starting to think my problem is I am trying to please people too much.   I will admit I wasn't the best designer, graphic designer, whatever you want to call it.  But I have learnt my way around photoshop, I have seen graphic designers, who program.  I have seen programmers who graphic design.  I was totally happy with my site, 100%, and I started doubting myself because hte people here, see to not like me specifically.  I looked over all the critique boards, never does anyone get as bad as a critique as mine.  When I sit down and design something that is good everyone thinks it sucks, when I see one's that are 2-3 times worse in the critique forums.  This is useless.

  THe first time I built my site, i Had ton's of clients say they liked my site, that I know for a fact, I have had plenty of people, I am making some false issue, trying to please people who are unpleasable. 

  I try my hardest, but screw it, I am going back to my old design, my old layout, my old logo.  It got attention, my website got responses, and it worked.  I started doubting it when some random person said it looked like shit on www.purepwnage.com, and I saw all the negative critiques on it.

  I don't understnad what you people have against me, and at this point I don't care anymore.  Every site I ever built was loved, by the person it was built for.  All of them had great comments about it, I may have had aways to go, but no-one complained.

www.thecampussource.com - the guy's mom said it was going to make me famous, the design was there idea, 1 person outside phpfreaks said it could use a redesign, everyone else loved it.

www.elostandfound.info - the idea behind the site itself may not sell, but it was her idea, she loved the site when I was done, and so was everyone that was on it, except for the grammer, saying I need text training or something, no big deal, I start studying english more, and getting better with sentence structure, it's something I can do in my spare time.

www.funnyemailforwards - dude loved the site, I didn't design it, I just programmed/coded behind someone else he already had do the design

www.moondancedesign.com - she loved the site, more than ever, and she got nothing but comments about it

www.freelancebusinessman.com - I liked my site, every client I ever had, liked my website.
I loved my own website more than ever, after I made that re-design, my clientel literally tripled, and started booming with 1k plus projects.

I don't know what I did good about it, or what I did bad, but almost every person I ask outside of php freaks like it, except one friend of mine, and he is extra, extra, extra picky.

  You guys have helped me with a lot of things.  I rose to the top of php and databasing thanks to the people here, I can program php/mysql with the best of them.  I can even jump to a new database sytem, give me one hour, and I can run it like I run mysql, thanks to the people who helped me learn.

To tell you the truth, awhile back I tried programming, just for a few hours, asp, jsp, and coldfusion, and I started learning some of the syntax, I can already do basic stuff with any of those languages, because hte people here conditioned me to be a programmer, I learnt from the best.

In some ways you people made me where I am today, in other ways the people here hold me back.
As I said I see websites in the critique far worse than any I have ever built, and people that critique mine go around say, it looks good, you could do this, this, maybe this, but other than that I like it.  Then when mine hits the forum, or any I have built, it's always something horrible.  I don't get it.

I am confident in my abilities, I know I can do a logo, I know I can make a site design, layout, I know I can code one, but what made me have a hard time these past few days, was I was trying to impress the people here, and I think I have to stop doing that from now on, and only listen to constructive criticism.  I know you people have given me very good advice about logo's but what aggravates me, is no matter how good I do, or what direction I go, I am doing something wrong, or something that is totally off track.  It wouldn't matter, no logo, no theme I came up with would be good enough to impress the people here, and unfortunately, that's the only reason I was redesigning my site.

If you asked me if I was happy with it, yes very.  I needed to change a few style related elements, maybe even redo the color scheme.  Maybe fix up the logo some, but even then you people will think my site sucks.  The ONLY reason Iw orked almost my whole weekend, was because I wanted to come up with something to truly impress the peolpe here, and only some people

Andy, akitchen, obsidian, the number guy, ober(specifically).  I look up to some of you more than you can imagine, all I have tried to do was impress a few select people here today, but nothing I do comes close.  If you aske dme today, am I happy with my current website, yes I am, so are my clients, and most people in general I ask, except people on php freaks, and a few people who jsut think it sucks for some reason.  If you asked me if I like my current logo, yes, and everyone said they loved my logo.  When I tried to chagne it, almost every client I had told me that THey liked the old one. It was a little blurry, and I didn't notice so I fixed it.

Andy- you have made me learn faster than I acn imagine, in all things, most of your criticism, is helpful, and nowhere near destructive, but some of the stuff you say, makes me feel I could never make something you considered looked good

number guy- the critique on moondancedesign.com was great, I am still going to go through and do as much of what you suggested as you acnned, because you helpe dme make it better, you showed me it was good, it just needed some work, you didn't totally destroy it.

wildteen, the god of css, if it hadn't of been for you totally coding layouts for me sometimes, I wouldn't know half of what I know now.

obsidian - lately, I have been looking up to almsot everything you said, and trying my hardest to impress you in my work, but I always fall short, you offer very good advice, but again nothing I do makes you actually sit down and say good job.  You offer helpful criticism, but sometimes I feel that I can't make you happy with my work, that's how I feel with a lot of you

ober - I look up to you almost most of all, from when I first started coming here, I have always wanted to come up with something that impressed you, but I have yet to succeeded.

Fenway- the god of databasing, you have helped me through databasing for a long time, and your one of the few people who have built me up emotionally.  You are the one that made me feel I could do anythign with databasing.  Because you didn't put me down when I was learning, at all, you even saw me sometimes trying to help someone, you didn't ocme in saying I was wrong, you stepped in and would say businessman is right, or good job(type of thing), or come in and say I forgot something, you always built me up in a positive way.

barand- you have never put anythign I have done down, offered lot's of php advice, and helped me get better, you ever said a few times, that I was making good progress

jcombs - I htink you sometimes have a very, very rude personallity, especially in that post with that person where you and them were arguing, but you are the god of design.  I have looked up to your design advice a lot, you don't help me advice wise that often, because you just come in, say some rude stuff and leave, but looking at the sites you have built, has given me a lot of drive and determination.

other people I forgot- some helped me, some hurt more than helped

I don't really know, I know I decided to keep my old site, I decided I can't keep trying to impress the people here, it is something I have wanted to do since I started but never was able to accomplish unfortunately, it will be a few years until I am able too.  IF that's the way it has to be then fine.
I am doing a few things, I am rewriting all text on my website, gogin through that old critique, and changing what is easily changed, and trying some ideas that were offered.  I am going to rewrite all teh tetx on the whole thing, deleting and changing a few pages, just doing some stuff to try and make it better, I might even get brave enough to try antoher color scheme, but I can't keep trying to impress people, I have  a lot of projects to do, I wish I could have, I wish I could have impressed everyone I mentioned here, maybe a few I forgot, but I won't be able too, that's what is so damn frustrating.

[oldmanice]

I think those logos are really nice good job.

[akitchin]

it's refreshing to see you make an actual decision on here instead of constantly asking us for our opinion, even if it is the decision to stop trying to impress us.  congratulations.

frankly the reason we are less impressed than the general public is because we spend the better part of our time on the internet.  we've seen some incredible sites, and we've seen some total crap.  you probably fit somewhere in between there, but we're not going to be ashamed to tell you precisely where.  note that a couple of the sites you claim the client absolutely loved, you yourself didn't actually design.  that reinforces my point of sticking to what you're good at.

i'll add that most of the other critiques none of us weigh in on because it'd be too much effort.  i think you should be happy that we're so patient with your efforts; it's easier to not bother typing than to actually set down some critiques.  your critiques have some of the highest page counts of any, so don't tell us we're not trying here.

however, do NOT demean our criticism by saying that our posts are negative simply because we don't like you.  we mostly do our best to be absolutely unbiased on these boards.  in any case where we are marginally biased, it is not unwarranted.

[quote]and I think I have to stop doing that from now on, and only listen to constructive criticism.  I know you people have given me very good advice about logo's but what aggravates me, is no matter how good I do, or what direction I go, I am doing something wrong, or something that is totally off track.  It wouldn't matter, no logo, no theme I came up with would be good enough to impress the people here, and unfortunately, that's the only reason I was redesigning my site.[/quote]

correct me if i'm wrong, but i've only seen two or three legitimately different "directions" you've gone with your logo in this thread.  and frankly, not one of them actually heeded what people were saying.  it aggravates us just as much as you when we make suggestions, and you come back with the exact same logo with one or two new filters applied.

if your clients are happy, then so be it.  keep doing what you're doing.  if work really is "booming with 1k plus projects," it shouldn't be so difficult to just hire a designer.  if you can hop off your high-horse about being the best with phrases like "I can program php/mysql with the best of them." (a claim i imagine even most of the mods/admin on here wouldn't make), you'd find it easier to admit when you're not in your niche.

i am trying to be kind, and still want to offer help with your questions on these boards, but i feel it's time to defend the mods and their opinions.

[Ninjakreborn]

sigh

[neylitalo]

[quote author=businessman332211 link=topic=109986.msg444505#msg444505 date=1159660467]ober ..., I have always wanted to come up with something that impressed you, but I have yet to succeeded.[/quote]

Oh, don't worry one bit about that - every single site ober's looked at, he's found something to fix. :D

ober and his Opera... the bane of my existence, way back when.

[Ninjakreborn]

I think I have been making a mistake this whole time, I noticed something, I looked at the old post I had on my website www.freelancebusinessman.com
I saw a lot of the reasons people said they didn't like that, I don't need a new design, everything, everyone mentioned I can fix, I have been doing that for awhile now, I am rewriting all the text for it, I have already deleted a hell of a lot of pages, rewrote huge sections, recoded some of it, removed lots of useless code, recoding some more of the css, and removing all validation, I am going to start following my ethics even heavier, I have been going through now, and checking hte source, making sure my code is clean, and well commented.  I am rewriting almost everything on the site, I saw jcombs had actually put a post about my site, he put a screenshot of things he didn't like about my site, I am going through and fixing all of those, i am fixing my logo so it's not blurry.  Once everything on those lists are done, I will repost for critique.  Then I am going back to moondancedesign.com and doing everything that I saw on that list, to make it better.  I have the answers I just am not using them, I am getting all the problems fixed with all my current websites on my portfolio.

As for my own, I am doing everything everyone suggested, then getting some new ideas, I am totally redoing my entire business structure, I have rewritten a lot on my site already, I am still rewriting somet tonight, tomorrow, and this week, until I get everything on that list off.