Geese

[Azu]

Hello.

 

I'm working on making a function that pluralizes words, but I'm having a hard time with some kinds.

 

Like geese for example. What the rule that causes it to be geese and not gooses? And also feet. Why isn't it foots? I can't find the rule (reason) that causes these words to be spelled like this when they are plural please help.

 

Looking through all the words in the dictionary and hard coding these weird ones isn't an option. I want to find the pattern that makes them like this.

[GingerRobot]

As far as im aware, there isn't such a pattern. Perhaps im wrong and there may be something which will help you get most of them right. However, i dont believe you could make it get everything right without a list. Languages evolve, they dont stick to their rules all the time. Indeed, the most common phrases are usually those which are furthest from the rules and grammer of a given language. There will always be something which breaks the rule.

[effigy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_plural

[Daniel0]

Looking through all the words in the dictionary and hard coding these weird ones isn't an option. I want to find the pattern that makes them like this.

 

You have to - it's an irregular word.

[steelmanronald06]

Here is your rule:

 

There is a flock of geese.

I see a goose.

 

In other words, it is just common sense and there is no actual rule (like: i before e except after c).  SOOO, you're just going to have to use the built in PHP AI functions to get it to realize that goose needs to be geese when your talking about more than one.

[redbullmarky]

have a look at the source for CakePHP's Inflector class. They have methods that will handle this in both directions, including irregularities like this one, and maybe a good start to getting ideas of how it's done.

[Azu]

In other words, it is just common sense and there is no actual rule

I'm sorry but I don't understand.

If it was common sense, then you would be able to know that it is geese and not gooses, WITHOUT having to be told before hand "Hey, the plural word for goose is GEESE for some reason".

 

And AI is the EXACT OPPISITE of just hard-coding what should be returned.

 

 

Anyways.. how can there be no reason or logic whatsoever to the word? I mean surely it wasn't just created randomly by some drunk guy who wanted to purposefully make English a bad language?

[AndyB]

goose -> geese (plural)

moose -> moose (plural)

 

And what pronunciation 'rule' would cover the words cough, bough, ought?

 

Language develops, it doesn't have hard and fast rules for every case. There is no common sense rule for goose/geese (or other anomalies), that's just the way it is.

[Barand]

And

 

though

through

borough

enough

 

(Hmm, thought there were nine different pronunciations of "ough")

 

And I think it was GB Shaw who commented on the English language suggesting "fish" could be spelt "ghoti" using

"gh" from "enough"

"o" from "women"

"ti" from "notion"

 

Esperanto excepted, all languages have their irregular nouns and verbs

[neylitalo]

(Hmm, thought there were nine different pronunciations of "ough")

 

A few that I can think of:

 

cough

plough (Pronounced the same as, and can be used instead of, plow.)

thought

[Azu]

And

 

though

through

borough

enough

I'm sorry but don't I thought only NOUNS can be plural? Not verbs/adjectives? *Confused*

[AndyB]

And

 

though

through

borough

enough

I'm sorry but don't I thought only NOUNS can be plural? Not verbs/adjectives? *Confused*

 

THAT post was about 'rules' on pronunciation.

[effigy]

Cough can be a noun and a verb. That's part of the point being made. How do you know--or better yet, how does the computer know--when it is or isn't?

[Barand]

Exactly, parse these

 

"Time flies like an arrow"

"Fruit flies like a banana"

[akitchin]

as everyone else has been so great at pointing out, all languages are filled with results that can only have come about by "hm, that's good enough."  take the french cul-de-sac (which is also used in english), which literally translated, means the "ass of a bag."  laziness rules.

[Daniel0]

Cough can be a noun and a verb. That's part of the point being made. How do you know--or better yet, how does the computer know--when it is or isn't?

You can tell when it's put in a context. Humans can at least.

 

And

 

though

through

borough

enough

I'm sorry but don't I thought only NOUNS can be plural? Not verbs/adjectives? *Confused*

You can have a plural form of both verbs and adjectives. It is for example "he walks" (3rd person singular) while it's "they walk" (3rd person plural). In English you can't have plural adjectives (I can't think of any example at least), but there are other languages in which you can.

[neylitalo]

You can have a plural form of both verbs and adjectives. It is for example "he walks" (3rd person singular) while it's "they walk" (3rd person plural). In English you can't have plural adjectives (I can't think of any example at least), but there are other languages in which you can.

 

I'm afraid verbs and adjectives can't be plural. Yes, a word ending in "s" or "es" often indicates a plural, but only in the case of nouns. The word "plural" means, roughly, "two or more." The phrase "he walks" doesn't necessarily mean that the person is walking multiple times, although it's possible. I give you a few examples to show what I mean:

 

"He walks to the park." In this sentence, "walks" is a verb. It's telling you what the subject of the sentence, "he", is doing.

"He goes for walks." In this sentence, "walks" is a noun. It means that the subject of the sentence walks multiple times.

 

Sorry if I'm telling you things you already know... does it clarify anything, or was this post rather pointless? (I won't be offended if it was, just say so. )

[Azu]

Cough can be a noun and a verb. That's part of the point being made. How do you know--or better yet, how does the computer know--when it is or isn't?

Good question! I'm guessing it would need to somehow interpret the sentence enough to understand the context.. I think that this would probably be complicated though.. and is one of the reasons I am looking for an extremely detailed database of verbs/nouns etc.. I don't think it would be possible without one.. I mean it can't just GUESS whether something is a noun or adjective or whatever, something like this would have to already be known. Unless it would some kind of super extremely advanced AI capable of learning languages on it's own. That would take an insane effort though.

[Azu]

And

 

though

through

borough

enough

I'm sorry but don't I thought only NOUNS can be plural? Not verbs/adjectives? *Confused*

You can have a plural form of both verbs and adjectives. It is for example "he walks" (3rd person singular) while it's "they walk" (3rd person plural). In English you can't have plural adjectives (I can't think of any example at least), but there are other languages in which you can.

 

I thought that the S in walks in that context only means "present tense" not "plural"? And "walked" would be "past tense:.. "walk" would be "present tense" I think?

 

Hmm.

 

And with some things I think it would be very hard to know for sure.. like "side walks". Does it mean walking to the side/sideways? Or is it the plural of a side walk(object)? I think there might even be some situations where a human could get confused and not be able to tell for sure..

 

Why is this language so.. random? X_X;;;

[AndyB]

I mean it can't just GUESS whether something is a noun or adjective or whatever, something like this would have to already be known.

 

Which exactly illustrates the difficulty. MEAN can be a verb, a noun, or an adjective; GUESS can be a noun or a verb.

[Azu]

I think maybe the English language is just to inconsistent for something like this =S

 

Can somebody please tell me one that is consistent?

[Daniel0]

You can have a plural form of both verbs and adjectives. It is for example "he walks" (3rd person singular) while it's "they walk" (3rd person plural). In English you can't have plural adjectives (I can't think of any example at least), but there are other languages in which you can.

 

I'm afraid verbs and adjectives can't be plural. Yes, a word ending in "s" or "es" often indicates a plural, but only in the case of nouns. The word "plural" means, roughly, "two or more." The phrase "he walks" doesn't necessarily mean that the person is walking multiple times, although it's possible. I give you a few examples to show what I mean:

 

"He walks to the park." In this sentence, "walks" is a verb. It's telling you what the subject of the sentence, "he", is doing.

"He goes for walks." In this sentence, "walks" is a noun. It means that the subject of the sentence walks multiple times.

 

Sorry if I'm telling you things you already know... does it clarify anything, or was this post rather pointless? (I won't be offended if it was, just say so. )

 

Oh, I think you misunderstood me. I meant that when the verb is "walks" then it indicates that whatever walks is singular 3rd person (he/she/it). In the sentence "they walk" the verb is 3rd person plural.

 

Maybe I can explain it better with a language that works in another way. Take the Spanish verb "tener" (to have) for example:

1st person singular: tengo (I have)

2nd person singular: tienes (you have)

3rd person singular: tiene (he/she/it has)

1st person plural: tenemos (we have)

2nd person plural: tenéis (you have)

3rd person plural: tienen (they have)

So if you have the sentence "tengo un libro" (I have a book) you'll see on the verb that the person who has the book is singular, but in "tienen un libro" (they have a book) you'll see that whoever has the book is plural (so would you with "tenemos un libro").

 

If we move on to Spanish adjectives and take the sentences "una chica joven" (a young girl) and "dos chicas jóvenes" (two young girls) you'll see that the adjective in the second sentence (joven) is plural because whatever it refers to is plural.

 

I know Spanish isn't English, but it was just to show it because it's easier seen.

 

Can somebody please tell me one that is consistent?

Latin?

[neylitalo]

Oh, I think you misunderstood me.

 

Oh, that's quite probable, it's been known to happen.

 

And I never thought I'd say this, but I just realized that grammar and languages interest me a lot. I guess I owe my fifth grade Language Arts teacher an apology.

[Daniel0]

If we move on to Spanish adjectives and take the sentences "una chica joven" (a young girl) and "dos chicas jóvenes" (two beautiful girls) you'll see that the adjective in the second sentence (joven) is plural because whatever it refers to is plural.

 

Ooops... second sentence should of course be translated to "two young girls" - I changed the adjective but forgot to change it in the translation

My edit time expired so I can't change it :-\

[Jessica]

The adjective isn't plural, it just has a different form when referring to a plural noun. Only nouns are singular or plural.

At least English doesn't have gendered nouns!