jos. Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Disclaimer: I am not looking for a coder. I am one. I am not looking to sell work. I have sold it. I am looking to get people to "Open" up a little bit. In the world of web design and development I find that the discussion of our pricing schemes seems to be a NO NO. I just want to know what other people would charge and or could charge in their given locale for a project with these specs. Hey ladies/Gents simply out of pure curiosity and a small amount of rebellion I was wondering what some of you would realistically and honestly charge for a interactive and dynamic Calendar with the following specs: Mind you, you would be coding this completely from scratch! No css template, No calendar classes, No Ajax objects... nothing Appearance: A) Professional, Well colored table with proper imagery if client desired B) Flowing layout joining the input and presentation to look like a well rounded software package. C) Days with adjoining data would be colored differently for users to see they should be clicked on for further information D) Small or Compact version for the side bar of a website and a larger full page version for its own respective page (same calendar) E) User friendly modification forms and instructions Functionality (Owner/users will be able to preform the following): A) Move back and forth throughout the months in the year (into past and future years as well) B) Click on days of the month to show <div>s or whatever you would use to present the information for that date C) UserName/Password protection for the Owner to edit, delete, or otherwise modify their calendar. D) Dynamic styles (colors, fonts, and so on...) for the owner to choose from as they wished. E) Side bar Cal. have hide and show capabilities F) Submission page for users to submit events to the Owner for review and posting. Technologies: Database storage: MySQL || Oracle || MSSQL ServerSide: PHP || Jsp || Asp.net Client: CSS AJAX XHTML NO FLASH !!! Not to be biased but I do not know anything about developing in flash and therefore could not grasp what is necessary to develop a flash application in relation to... say a PHP app. I could get +- $400 USD depending on the vibe I was getting in the meeting (provided this was a live meeting in my area). What would you do it for in your home town, state, Country? P.S. Please, no negativity... Look foreword to hearing from you. Jos. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/82429-php-coders-what-would-you-charge/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquid Fire Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Well that would take about a month, 3 weeks of functionality programming and a week of styling(if they want a quality product). I would not start from scratch because that is just retard, I would use my own personally framework I have built for PHP and jQuery for javascript. Cost would be about 8K which is pretty cheap compared to other professional companies. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/82429-php-coders-what-would-you-charge/#findComment-419124 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFilmGod Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 I'm doing this for free for a teacher, but its just because its for college apps. I spent maybe 5 solid hours coding it and I have almost finished. So another 5 hours and I should be done. - It might not have all the features you mentioned. If it wasn't for free, I would charge about $250 an hour or $2.5 grand (in total). I consider my time very precious. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/82429-php-coders-what-would-you-charge/#findComment-419212 Share on other sites More sharing options...
zq29 Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Well that would take about a month, 3 weeks of functionality programming and a week of styling(if they want a quality product). I would not start from scratch because that is just retard, I would use my own personally framework I have built for PHP and jQuery for javascript. Cost would be about 8K which is pretty cheap compared to other professional companies. If you're talking $/£, good luck if you ever get to quote for a similar piece of work. You should be charging for a mixture of how long it takes to develop and what the product is worth. Just because it would take you a month to build that, a lot of companies or individuals could code that in a hell of a lot shorter time span to an equal or higher quality. Saying that, the spec is too vague to put an accurate price on. As a project though, I'd say a vague £1500/$3000, from a companies prospective, in England. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/82429-php-coders-what-would-you-charge/#findComment-419284 Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbullmarky Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 D) Small or Compact version for the side bar of a website and a larger full page version for its own respective page (same calendar) this would need more info, as i'd need to know what it needed to be integrated into - ie, a custom website, or an existing CMS (like wordpress, for example). there's nothing really otherwise tricky here though - so how Liquid Fire could justify 8k is beyond me - especially if you're NOT writing from scratch. even $2,500 upwards is kind of pushing the boundaries of what takes the piss, in my opinion. especially considering it's not really a unique project that requires ultra-custom, ultra-unique scripts. Many of the features could be found open-source and put into place quite easily, so the initial comment Mind you, you would be coding this completely from scratch! No css template, No calendar classes, No Ajax objects... nothing could easily be turned on its head when talking to the client when discussing how much the cost can be reduced by using 3rd party, tried and tested pieces. personally, i might be able to get some of the lower figures mentioned, but i reckon it'd probably be the last bit of work i ever got from that particular client... Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/82429-php-coders-what-would-you-charge/#findComment-419288 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquid Fire Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 If you're talking $/£, good luck if you ever get to quote for a similar piece of work. You should be charging for a mixture of how long it takes to develop and what the product is worth. Just because it would take you a month to build that, a lot of companies or individuals could code that in a hell of a lot shorter time span to an equal or higher quality. Saying that, the spec is too vague to put an accurate price on. As a project though, I'd say a vague £1500/$3000, from a companies prospective, in England. after taking a look at the feature set your are probably right(I don't know why I saw this is more features than login/custom style/add events), it would take me about 1-2 weeks(most of which would be spent of layout for me because css and design is very very weak for me). In all honestly, from the 3-4 out sourced companies I have working with, if any of them quote my original quote price/timeframe, I would be surprised because it would be a lot lower and quicker than anything they have ever quoted, I mean one project they built for us, that we don't even use, cost 60,000 and took 8 months, and I build all the the functionality plus more within 3 weeks. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/82429-php-coders-what-would-you-charge/#findComment-419335 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jos. Posted December 20, 2007 Author Share Posted December 20, 2007 Wow I guess I am under a little huh... In my area people would look at me cross eyed if I said $1500 - $2000, which sucks because I am the only web developer / designer for 40 miles that knows anything beyond simple table layout HTML! Thats rural Va. for you though. I think its amazing that I could make a decent living if I were to be living some where else. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/82429-php-coders-what-would-you-charge/#findComment-419424 Share on other sites More sharing options...
trq Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 I think its amazing that I could make a decent living if I were to be living some where else. Yeah, I generally don't take anything on for less than $1000AU, its just not worth my while. And if the job is going to come in at less than a few days work, I'll charge upwards of $70/hour. Usually the smaller the project, the higher my hourly rate. Once a job gets to around the 25 hour mark I start quoting differently. While an hourly rate may come into it, theres usually alot of other factors that determine my end price quote. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/82429-php-coders-what-would-you-charge/#findComment-419433 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcombs_31 Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Don't worry jos, people around here don't seem to want to pay either if I quote any reasonable price. When I see developers listing their high prices I get jealous that they are able to pull it off because I certainly have trouble getting what I want for a project. People get scared off right at the beginning. Really discouraging. I would certainly charge more than $400 though, you need to get up to at least 1k for the time spent building the application. The problem is that the average joe knows absolutely nothing about what is involved with web development. They tend to think it is like using microsoft word and everything just works. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/82429-php-coders-what-would-you-charge/#findComment-419439 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jos. Posted December 20, 2007 Author Share Posted December 20, 2007 Yeah its pretty tough. I have a fairly good feel for what my work is worth and I have taken the time to calculate my overhead and profit costs and targets respectively however, as it would seem the people around my area need/have respect for quality web development a little bit less then I need a paycheck. lol So I am forced to compete with an idiot that uses a say... Gimp and an image map for what he sells as an "8 - 10 page custom design package with no programming" for a measly $250. HA! and these people look at me funny when I quote them a price that is at least 2/3 or 1/2 of what I think the project is worth yet double what the other guy is charging thus, creating an extreme paradox for my pricing scheme. Despite all of that I am in the process of cornering the local market by means of selling to the main business owners of the community; If I can get them to accept higher standards then the lower/smaller businesses will be soon to follow and fall into place. And to ward off the impending doom of my creation, service and maintenance fees will be in order. Because, in 3 local towns comprised of < 20k people I will inevitably run out of sites to develop. I just hope I can make it last until I graduate... :-\ I hope you have enjoyed hearing my rants and business strategies. Jos. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/82429-php-coders-what-would-you-charge/#findComment-419662 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcombs_31 Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 Targeting local business is a good start, but don't feel you are limited to only those local business. That is the one nice thing about web development, you can make a site for anyone around the world regardless of your location. I've played around with many different business card and flyer designs, and have not been happy with any of them as of yet, but once I do I plan to start some marketing in my area to small businesses. Good luck, this is a tough industry and unfortunately we're not all salesmen. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/82429-php-coders-what-would-you-charge/#findComment-420464 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHP_PhREEEk Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 I think developing a relationship with the client goes a long way towards getting the rates you feel good about. No doubt about it, we all have to give it away extremely cheap, or even free from time to time. I have found (after running two different small businesses over the last 20 years), that your personality quite often dictates your pay. Whether that's fair or not doesn't really matter, it's just how it is more often than not. You need to be a good communicator, yet an impeccable listener. You have to hear what the client is saying, and more importantly, understand what the client believes. Too many coders/designers go in way too heavy up front with their own 'ideas'. The client many times wants to at least 'feel' that his ideas are important enough to be at the top of your list. You never know what might turn a client off, so don't rush out and do so by mistake. If a client wants an orange website and you stand firm that you think blue would look better, you're more than likely going to lose that client. It's difficult to relay it all in a post, but essentially you need to work around the client while working with him. If the client has seen some super-whizzy javascript thingy on a website once, and wants it on his, GET IT for him! Tell him that Javascript "isn't very professional, and a lot of web surfers disable it, so I don't advise we use it", and you'll lose that client. You might do 100 things that would impress any peer coder, but your client could care less, so keep pointing out how cool the javascript thing looks on his website. That's called "speaking the client's language", and you need to be good at doing that. This isn't about ability as much as it's about a people's game. If the client likes you and you make his ideas a part of the scheme, then you'll be paid well... and that's what this is about. Let's not forget the importance of your art form. You absolutely DO need ability, creativity, and flexibility. You have to be able to solve problems through design and code and get the job done. But in the end, the most important thing you do as a developer is not the finished product, it's the cultivation of that client that will be the most rewarding. If you are well thought of as a person as well as a capable coder/designer, then that client will recommend you to his circle. When you come to a new client through the recommendation of an old client who raved about you, you will command a better price. Cultivating a clientele network is the key to success in any overcrowded industry/marketplace. Last, but not least, learn to be an administrator. Build the proper network of peer coders/designers/developers so that you always look good. If your client wants some flash thingy, but you don't program flash, NEVER shoot yourself in the foot by saying bad things about flash so that your client will forget about it. HE WON'T.. hehe The solution is to sub out a small flash job to someone who does flash. Install it in the client's website and watch them smile from ear to ear... So what you want to be is "the guy who can get anything and everything". The client does not care what you sub out, only that the job gets done. As designers and coders, we all have fairly big egos (say it ain't so!), and letting go of those egos to bring in other designers to help out with a project is a difficult thing to do, but necessary. Work smart, not hard! = ) Peace, and the warmest holiday wishes to you - -Keith Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/82429-php-coders-what-would-you-charge/#findComment-422330 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfrat Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 I would actually be willing to do it for free. Right now I'm still at school, being supported by my parents, so I just do stuff like this to gain experience. Any money I get would just be a nice bonus Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/82429-php-coders-what-would-you-charge/#findComment-422416 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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