I hope this is allowed...

[keiran420]

Hey guys.

 

I hope this is allowed here, as i want to discuss a certain culture...

 

The culture of 420.

 

As my name says, im part of it.

 

To be blunt for a second:, 420 is the culture of cannabis.

 

A substance banned in parts of the world. (with varying degrees of strictness)

 

Why is it banned?

Do you think it should be banned?

If so do you honestly think it is worse than say alcohol or nicoten...?

 

If someone asked me why cannabis was illegal, i would reply that the goverment does not want to change its views becuase of the 'bad image' many say it would cause...

But believe me, every goverment on this planet really would want it legal, moderted, and taxed.

 

I live in britain, and TBH the laws on cannabis are hardley enforced.

 

If you grow it and deal it, the cops are gonna be after you for sure.

But i would feel quite safe walking past any coppers with a bit of personal.

I havnt been caught smoking in public often, and only one of those times did even the slightest bad thing happen, i lost some weed. ^^

 

I want any one who is shaking their heads right now to think about this.

Almost as many people in the world have atleast tried cannabis as the ones who drink even a little.

Now how many alcohol related crimes, fights, murders do you here about?

Just last fucking year in a town not far from me, some 18 yearold chav put his beer can down at a party, a little girl picked it up and had a sip, he punched her so hard she died  :'( you here about so many god damn drinking fueled stabbings, and murders it makes me sick. coinsidently, drinking also makes me sick <.<... anyway.

 

This is all part rant, part poll, and part preaching...

 

whats your thoughts on the questions:

Why is it banned?

Do you think it should be banned?

If so do you honestly think it is worse than say alcohol or nicoten...?

 

And a poll...

Try a lot:

Tried a bit

Tried barley ever

Tried never

 

 

Sorry again if this is not allowed here, just bored ^^.

[corbin]

Ooooo a stoner thread!

 

Interesting.

 

 

I shall post later.

[zq29]

I don't think it should be illegal, I also see it as less damaging to society than alcohol.

[.josh]

I don't think it should be illegal, I also see it as less damaging to society than alcohol.

 

Ah, but that's the thing.  Funny thing about marijuana is that 99% of the time I see Pro-Pot-People (People who are 'for' the idea of legalized pot.  Not necessarily pot smokers.  Henceforth I will refer to them as PPPs) arguing it's legitimacy, it's always in the context of comparing it to worse things.  But allowing a "lesser evil" on the basis that a "greater evil" is allowed isn't very logical.  And for those who don't know, the govt. did try to ban alcohol at one point in time, but due to people yelling and screaming and protesting and ignoring loud enough, they brought it back. 

 

I do not see legalization of marijuana as a recreational drug (like alcohol or cigarettes) happening any time soon.  Especially since PPPs are foolishly trying to push the 'medicinal purposes' argument.  I'm not saying it doesn't have medicinal uses.  What I am saying is that since PPPs are trying to legalize it because of that, it's going to wind up on the shelf as a prescription drug, just like every other 'feel-good' prescription drug.  How many prescription drugs do you see downgraded to over-the-counter?  Not very many. 

 

Only a handful of states even recognize it as a prescription drug, and it's not recognized on the federal level.  It's going to take time for it to even be legitimized as a prescription drug across the board.  And even after that, they aren't going to turn around and over-the-counter it the next day, when it took them all that time to put it at prescription status.  And that's why I think that the PPPs are being foolish by pushing the medicinal value argument.  They think that this tactic is getting their foot in the legal door, when all it's doing is pushing up the date of when it reaches over-the-counter status. 

 

And again, I'm not necessarily disenfranchising it's medicinal value.  But come on.  We all know that most people are getting prescriptions for it in much the same way they get prescriptions for other things they want to enjoy.  They go to some PPP doctor and recite the magic words he needs to hear to legally give him the thumbs up.  Vague "It"-hurts symptoms are good enough.  Throw in a wink-wink-nudge-nudge for the punchline to this joke of a process. 

 

And let's say that tomorrow pot is legalized.  What happens to all the people with records or on probation or in rehab or in jail because of pot?  People will argue that it's not their fault the govt. was slow to realize the err of their ways.  Why should they continue to be penalized?  People will demand that prior records be destroyed.  People will demand to be released from probation, rehab and jail, and rightfully so.  It's like if I were to put my kid in the corner for running in the house.  While he's in the corner, I decide that running in the house is not such a bad thing after all.  Is it fair that he continues to stay in the corner?  This is not a valid reason for not legalizing it.  I'm just pointing out that it's not as simple as just saying "Okay, it's legal."

 

Another thing I think PPPs fail to consider, is what exactly will happen, economically.  They think that Uncle Sam will throw a heavy tax on it like they do with cigarettes and booze, everybody's happy, the end.  So what happens when sales go down for the pharmaceutical, alcohol and tobacco companies (Though I guess it could be argued that tobacco companies might see an increase in sales, if anything)?  Do you really think that these huge, multi-billion dollar industries are going to sit on the sidelines and do nothing about that?  No, they are not.  In fact, they aren't sitting on the sidelines right now.  I guarantee you that they are the ones fighting the most to keep it as controlled-substance status right now, and it's not because they feel it's bad for you or morally wrong.  It's because it will hurt their pocket books.

 

And yes, the govt. does stand to get extra income for legalizing it (by taxing it).  But do they feel it's worth the trade-off?  As it stand right now, marijuana as a controlled substance.  But a lot of people smoke pot.  A lot.  Keeping it illegal gives the govt. a certain amount of control over people.  It gives them the option seeming cool by turning a blind eye to 'minor' offenses, as well as wtfpwning you at their discretion.  I'm sure many people will write that off as paranoid rantings towards "the man," but I've been in too many situations that involve cops and weed to think otherwise. 

 

Anyways.. as far as whether I personally think it should be legalized....

 

I'm not 100% sure where I stand on that.  I mean, I certainly agree it's not as bad as alcohol or cigarettes or especially any number of other prescription drugs (seriously, read the possible side effects and warnings on that stuff.  SCARY).  But as mentioned before, being the 'lesser of the two evils' does not a 'good' thing make - It's still an 'evil.' 

 

I'm personally not sure whether I feel it's 'evil' or not.  Plenty of times I have been high or have had my life revolve around being high to the point that it was counter-productive to what some would call "Being an outstanding citizen."  But I do not necessarily attribute that to being high on pot, specifically.  I feel that it could have just as easily been something else.  It is something else for many other people.  In fact, it doesn't even have to be a 'drug' that causes deviant behavior.  Any hobby or ideal can be taken to extremes. 

 

I've been sober for a long while now.  I do not think I'm gonna run out and buy a pack of marijuanettes just because the govt. makes it legal.  And I feel sorry for the people who will.  That is, I feel sorry for the people who decide whether something is right or wrong, based on what the govt. says.  But that's just me.  So in that capacity, I really don't care whether it's legalized or not.  If I light up, it's going to be because I feel in my own heart/mind/whatever that it's okay, regardless of it's legal status. 

 

p.s.-

 

I think the 420 culture is retarded, but that's a whole other TLDR post.

[Maq]

Well done CV.  "marajuanettes", I like that.  I'm going to make this short and sweet.  First off, I'm not a supporter of pot smokers but I do think that it's less harmful than alcohol, cigarettes, and most other drugs.  I agree, the implications are far greater than what most PPP's think.  If anything does happen it will be a very long process.  Especially with huge multi-billion dollar businesses fighting against it.  (I think I just summarized what CV said...  )

 

If someone asked me why cannabis was illegal, i would reply that the goverment does not want to change its views becuase of the 'bad image' many say it would cause...

 

I think it has to do with a lot more than 'bad image', but that is certainly part of it.

[revraz]

I could honestly care less what anyone does to their own body.  As long as I don't have to pay for your medical expenses, have at it.

 

The problem comes when you do something stupid under the influence and the tax payers get stuck with the bill because you can't afford to pay the lawsuit.

 

Granted, people are stupid without drugs too, but at least they were smart enough to not take drugs.

[.josh]

Granted, people are stupid without drugs too, but at least they were smart enough to not take drugs.

 

hmm...IMO if two people do the same stupid thing and one was high and the other wasn't, I'd say the sober person was stupider. 

[revraz]

Well some people don't have a choice if they are stupid or not, but you do have a choice on what you put into your body.

[.josh]

Well some people don't have a choice if they are stupid or not, but you do have a choice on what you put into your body.

 

I was just pointing out the fallacy of claiming people are smarter for not doing drugs.

[premiso]

Honestly, I used to smoke a long time ago, quit cause of the wife.

 

Does it make you dumber, not necessarily. Does constant smoking cause your thought process to slow down? Yea. But that does not mean you are dumber/stupid. Drinking makes you much more stupider imho.

 

When I was smoking I could still code, I just couldn't code high, the screen going back and forth on me with a white page wasnt good. But I could still code and figure out problems as I always could. Smoking too much can cause problems, what too much of anything can cause problems. Too much gaming takes away from your ability to socially interact with people around you, not in cyberspace. Too much eating causes obesity which leads to more problems. Too much drinking causes liver problems etc.

 

The key with life is moderation. The problem is some people cannot moderate certain substances, thus addiction is born.

 

I have nothing against smokers, drinkers, or druggies. As long as they do not try to force me to do something I do not want and do not put my life or my families life in danger, do what you want. I think a DUI should be a felony the 2nd offense, whether you are driving after smoking a joint or drinking.

 

But yea to state that someone is stupid just because they smoke is ignorant imo.

 

Just my 2cents.

[Daniel0]

I have nothing against smokers, drinkers, or druggies.

 

I have something against smoking. Just because someone would like to get lung cancer doesn't mean I want to as well. Some morons in Denmark even created a bloody "Smokers Party" fighting to get their "right" to infest my lungs with their chemical garbage. If you check out the "English version" on that site then you'll see that they "will fight for mutual respect in the public space", which is quite obviously hypocritical. How are they respecting non-smokers by forcing them into passive smoking?

 

Insofar people smoke outdoors, in a room specifically designed for smoking, or another place where other people aren't forced to breath toxic fumes then I have no problems with smoking.

 

Alcohol and narcotics is different though. This will not have a direct effect on other people (except if you due to the intoxication of those substances harm other people).

[premiso]

I have nothing against smokers, drinkers, or druggies.

 

I have something against smoking. Just because someone would like to get lung cancer doesn't mean I want to as well. Some morons in Denmark even created a bloody "Smokers Party" fighting to get their "right" to infest my lungs with their chemical garbage. If you check out the "English version" on that site then you'll see that they "will fight for mutual respect in the public space", which is quite obviously hypocritical. How are they respecting non-smokers by forcing them into passive smoking?

 

Insofar people smoke outdoors, in a room specifically designed for smoking, or another place where other people aren't forced to breath toxic fumes then I have no problems with smoking.

 

Alcohol and narcotics is different though. This will not have a direct effect on other people (except if you due to the intoxication of those substances harm other people).

 

I would agree the obnoxious smokers who do not care where they light up and do not even think to ask first, bug me. But there are smokers who ask if you mind or not. All of my friends ask me first cause some days I care others I do not, but it is the courtesy of asking me and respecting my answer and I always thank them for it.

 

But the jerks who just light up whenever and wherever they are...yea.

[.josh]

What about the jerks (m and f alike) who pour a gallon of perfume type crap all over them, forcing me to choke and pass out?

[premiso]

What about the jerks (m and f alike) who pour a gallon of perfume type crap all over them, forcing me to choke and pass out?

 

lol that reminds me of Mr. Deeds. Good movie.

[DarkWater]

What about the jerks (m and f alike) who pour a gallon of perfume type crap all over them, forcing me to choke and pass out?

 

Lol.

 

Btw, I saw your long post...I was going to pull a nice tl;dr, but I actually decided to read it. xD

[akitchin]

Does it make you dumber, not necessarily. Does constant smoking cause your thought process to slow down? Yea. But that does not mean you are dumber/stupid. Drinking makes you much more stupider imho.

 

i am going to take exception to this one, if only because it's a silly statement from a scientific standpoint.  how do you define "dumber/stupid?"  most benchmarks involve speed of recall, speed of analytical processing, ability to form abstract thoughts and see them through, you name it; certainly one of those is "thought process speed."  if your thought process slows down, you are functionally dumber than you were earlier.  as for actual knowledge retention, there's plenty of evidence that both make you retarded over time and with abuse.  this is a point i will 100% agree with you on; the key to curbing the negative effects of any activity is moderation.  whether one destroys your intellectual abilities any faster than the other is a completely murky topic, and has so many variables (for one quick one, how do you compare dosimetry of two totally different metabolically active substances? without that, you wouldn't even be able to quantify anything) that it's not even really one worth debating.

 

not many would argue the straight-up physiological effects, "mind" considerations aside.  negative physiological effects of cannabis are not exactly common in scientific lit.; most stem from the smoke itself, which is news to no one.  ethanol, on the other hand, has a very real impact on the body's physiology.  again, news to no one.

 

the fact is, any regulating body were the substance regulated (that is, taxed and for authorized sale only) would make a mint anywhere.  i personally see far less possibility of a statistically relevant link between marijuana and violent or malicious criminal activity, not least because you just end up being really effing lazy while high.  of course, i also haven't crunched the numbers, and that's just it - none of us have, so all we have to sit on right now is mostly meaningless moral argument.

 

What about the jerks (m and f alike) who pour a gallon of perfume type crap all over them, forcing me to choke and pass out?

 

it's funny you mention that, there was quite a bit of discussion in canada recently about this.  all i can say is i want to viciously punch the back of the head of that ambiguously ancient lady (is she 50?  is she 70?  WHO KNOWS?) who wears that terrible fur coat and makes you gasp for air whenever she passes within 20 metres of you because she apparently bathes in chanel after her afternoon harlequin reading session.  you all know the one.  there's one in every urban centre.

[.josh]

I live in a town, population around 7,000.  Like 85% senior citizens.  I can't walk outside without smelling perfume in the air.

[akitchin]

I live in a town, population around 7,000.  Like 85% senior citizens.  I can't walk outside without smelling perfume in the air.

 

perhaps it is time to start playing with the timing of the traffic lights and artificially manipulating the population distribution a little bit?

[.josh]

Like it matters.  highest speed limit in town is 30mph.  Most roads are 20mph

[dropfaith]

Like it matters.  highest speed limit in town is 30mph.  Most roads are 20mph

 

god id go insane i live in a college town tho so most of my town is drunken 20 somethings who just party and the few actual decent students who are bettering their lifes.

 

but for the most part from what ive seen its drunken retards running around doing drugs and i sit and hope for them all to just die in a freak accident for their stupidity..

 

say what you will but really i dont care for other people very much i dont know them and from what ive seen of the drug world i dont want to know them. if you want to kill yourself with drugs feel free imo they arent really worth the space they take up anyways..

 

and yes that declairs all drugs that have any ill effects on the human body that can cause death

 

if you wanna die do drugs have fun but leave me the hell alone about it

[akitchin]

and yes that declairs all drugs that have any ill effects on the human body that can cause death

 

you're damning every bioactive material on the planet, then.  "All things are poison and nothing is without poison; only the dose makes a thing not a poison."

[.josh]

god id go insane i live in a college town tho so most of my town is drunken 20 somethings who just party and the few actual decent students who are bettering their lifes.

 

but for the most part from what ive seen its drunken retards running around doing drugs and i sit and hope for them all to just die in a freak accident for their stupidity..

 

say what you will but really i dont care for other people very much i dont know them and from what ive seen of the drug world i dont want to know them. if you want to kill yourself with drugs feel free imo they arent really worth the space they take up anyways..

 

and yes that declairs all drugs that have any ill effects on the human body that can cause death

 

if you wanna die do drugs have fun but leave me the hell alone about it

 

I think someone didn't get enough hugs as a child.

[dropfaith]

why is that?

becuase i think drugs are stupid?

[.josh]

No, it was the "I don't know them, but really, I don't care for other people, they're stupid,  I sit and hope for them to die, they aren't worth the space they take up" bit, that tipped me off.