Proper English!

[aximbigfan]

Could some mod maybe make a sticky out of a thread asking people to PLEASE USE PROPER ENGLISH? and while were at it, a proper guide to posting?

 

I'm constantly seeing threads where people vomit all over the English language, and when I see these, I immediately click back.

 

I don't know if there is a formatting guide out there now, but here is one that I made up

 

• Don't post in all CAPS
  
• Don't give people a time line to help you. Everyone on this forum is a volunteer. If you want things done ultra quickly, hire a programmer
  
• Don't abuse similes. One or two is fine, but no long strings of them
  
• Do SEARCH before you post
  
• Do spell check before posting
  
• Don't bold/italicize/underline your entire post
  
• Do post relevant code!
  
• Don't abuse font sizes/color
  

 

Thanks,

Chris

 

[DarkWater]

I think that everyone who agrees should put a link to http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html in their signature.  I'm going out right now, but I will when I get back, lol.

 

I absolutely hate threads that ask for help 'liek dis'.

[GingerRobot]

Could some mod maybe make a sticky out of a thread asking people to PLEASE USE PROPER ENGLISH? and while were at it, a proper guide to posting?

 

And where do you propose this sticky is put? In every single forum? Don't you think that's a bit pointless. It's all covered in the rules anyway. You know, that link in the me.

 

I'm going to assume you just needed a good rant. Which is fair enough really.

[Daniel0]

This should be blatantly obvious, so it's a wonder that people actually need to be told this.

[Maq]

This should be blatantly obvious, so it's a wonder that people actually need to be told this.

 

I agree.  I always wonder where people learn to speak and spell so poorly.  Maybe it's the lack of learning...

[xtopolis]

I wish that you could expect people, especially potential and already skilled programmers, to show a degree of intelligence when posting...  However, it just won't work.  In a place such as this, the internet, people tend to be carefree simply because there is no one policing them.

 

As for the proper English and grammar... it is unlikely that this will happen either.  Not everyone that comes here speaks English as their primary language, and many of those "English as a first language" speakers refuse to try to speak another language.  Moreover, a lot of the people coming here for help are younger and simply haven't reached the level of maturity where they would conduct themselves as you want.

 

If you could get "the masses" to smarten up, I think you would win a Nobel prize.  Until then, good luck.

 

ps> @Maq: learning -> education 

[448191]

Disallowing improper English would mean disallowing a group of people that simply do not know proper English. As it stands, I don't think that's our policy (although I personally wouldn't oppose it).

 

Then there's the use of "lazy English" and improper formatting (such as all caps), which we don't allow. Although there aren't any official rules on this topic so not all staff enforce this. Perhaps we should be little more strict in this regard.

 

And perhaps requiring English of some minimal standard is a good idea. But we would have to discuss that internally.

[.josh]

I do not feel that we should strictly enforce some kind of "standard," in this regard.  If the stars don't line up for you, then don't post.  Don't get angry about it.  Who are they to you?  How have they wronged you? 

[448191]

I do not feel that we should strictly enforce some kind of "standard," in this regard.  If the stars don't line up for you, then don't post.  Don't get angry about it.  Who are they to you?  How have they wronged you? 

 

Angry about what? Who's angry? And who are these other people you talk about?

 

In other words: I'm sorry?

[aximbigfan]

I don't think that this should be home of the grammernazi or anything, but I do think that it may be good for the community to put new users on "probation" where there is some sort of reminder of an acceptable format of posting.

 

Chris

[.josh]

I do not feel that we should strictly enforce some kind of "standard," in this regard.  If the stars don't line up for you, then don't post.  Don't get angry about it.  Who are they to you?  How have they wronged you? 

 

Angry about what? Who's angry? And who are these other people you talk about?

 

In other words: I'm sorry?

 

Post was meant for OP, sorry.

 

Also, "they" refers to the people who "fail to use proper english."

[corbin]

I don't think that this should be home of the grammernazi or anything, but I do think that it may be good for the community to put new users on "probation" where there is some sort of reminder of an acceptable format of posting.

 

Chris

 

 

Hehe, that's good since grammer = grammar ;p.

 

 

 

I must agree with who ever pointed out the non-English native thing earlier.  Some people can't speak proper English, and I don't think they should be run away for that.  Like someone else said, it's not like we have to reply to topics.  Just move on.

 

I must say though, something that bugs the hell out of me is on facebook or text messaging when someone is like: "hey wat r u up 2?"  BAHHHH!!!!!!!

 

 

 

 

(And of course, I'm likely to have a grammar error in here for pointing out spelling earlier...  Dammit.)

[GingerRobot]

 

I must say though, something that bugs the hell out of me is on facebook or text messaging when someone is like: "hey wat r u up 2?"  BAHHHH!!!!!!!

 

It doesn't bother me in texts - i understand that, when limited to 160 characters, it's natural to try to abbreviate things and that, for some people, texting like that is quicker. That said, i generally text in proper english with predictive text turned on. Text talk on the internet does irritate me quite a lot though. You've got a proper keyboard, so use it!.

[448191]

Post was meant for OP, sorry.

 

Ah that makes more sense.

 

@ corbin

 

I agree that we shouldn't be the grammar police. I myself am one of those "non-English native" people you speak of. And while spell check goes a long way, my English grammar is often lacking (that's not to say my Dutch grammar isn't though).

 

That doesn't mean we can't demand some minimal standard of readability. And that includes both language and formatting issues. I personally support taking more action to enforce this, but as I've said before that would have to be discussed internally (amongst the blue and red, as they will be the ones doing the work).

[Daniel0]

Personally, if someone colors an entire post then I'll edit it. Had I not been able to do that then I wouldn't read the post at all.

[corbin]

Post was meant for OP, sorry.

 

Ah that makes more sense.

 

@ corbin

 

I agree that we shouldn't be the grammar police. I myself am one of those "non-English native" people you speak of. And while spell check goes a long way, my English grammar is often lacking (that's not to say my Dutch grammar isn't though).

 

That doesn't mean we can't demand some minimal standard of readability. And that includes both language and formatting issues. I personally support taking more action to enforce this, but as I've said before that would have to be discussed internally (amongst the blue and red, as they will be the ones doing the work).

 

What about the people who barely know English?  Maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way though.  This is an English speaking forum, so I guess it's fair to assume posts will be in half way decent English.

[aximbigfan]

Personally, if someone colors an entire post then I'll edit it. Had I not been able to do that then I wouldn't read the post at all.

 

Some colors are ok, like blue, since it is often used in emails. But like red, or brown, yeah, no.

 

I do agree with the point about this being an English board, and that if people are going to post on it, they need to least know a degree of English.

 

 

Chris

[corbin]

Colors annoy me on forums.  Any color.  (Unless it's called for.  I mean excessive color, of course.)

 

 

One of my classes in school is extremely technically oriented, and there is a student forum for the class (there's a big organization behind the class), and half the posts on there look like this:

 

 

HI!  I NEED HELP WITH MY PROJECT!!!!  HOW DO I USE <insert softwear here>!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

Except the posts are usually much longer, and the grammar is wrong.  It makes me want to hunt them down and smack 'em in their faces.

 

 

Edit:  Awwww....  It's not hot pink...  On the forum I was talking about it's hot pink.

[xtopolis]

Slightly off topic~

 

I hate in school collaboration forums where someone starts a "Tell us about yourself thread".  I was taking an online flash cs3 class and someone started one of those, and then the teacher joined in and told everyone to post about themselves...  I just don't get attention whores these days... you'd think with things like myspace, facebook, twitter, w/e other social networking sites are out there, that they'd be getting enough attention.

 

 

On topic~

 

How would anyone go about enforcing this kind of thing anyway?  That would be a lot of edited posts... and I don't know about you, but if it's already in poor English, how is a mod or anyone going to know how to modify it so that people can understand it!

 

While it bothers me that people are obnoxious (with colors) and don't know how to ask questions (here's some code, fix it, k thanks)... I don't know how we could solve it... any form of punishment would start to alienate a lot of people.  Just look at Daniel0's statistics on users... so few users have 1000+ posts..  I've been here for months, regularly, and still don't have 1000+ posts.

[corbin]

Hrmmm....  You have a good point on the alienation thing.  But, as a rebuttal, why would those people feel alienated?  How dare someone tell me to speak a language properly on a forum!  I can see where some people, especially native English speakers could feel that they were infracted just so the mod could feel good.  Personally, I don't care if stupid (ignorant better word maybe?) people stick around.  If someone can't at least try to speak decently, I don't really care if he/she goes away.

 

 

I've seen far too many posts that look like this:

 

hrmmm....  you have a good point on the alienation thing but as a rebuttal why would those people feel alienated?  how dare someone tell me to speak a language properly on a forum! i can see where some people especially native english speakers could feel that they were infracted just so the mod could feel good personally i dont care if stupid (ignorant better word maybe) people stick around if someone cant at least try to speak decently i don't really care if they go away

 

Posts where the poster doesn't even try bug the hell out of me.

 

 

I guess it's best for the most people to stick around, but bleh....

 

You do have a point though.  Warning people for language would get ridiculous, and yeah, I guess people would feel alienated.

 

 

Slightly off topic~

I hate in school collaboration forums where someone starts a "Tell us about yourself thread".  I was taking an online flash cs3 class and someone started one of those, and then the teacher joined in and told everyone to post about themselves...  I just don't get attention whores these days... you'd think with things like myspace, facebook, twitter, w/e other social networking sites are out there, that they'd be getting enough attention.

 

The entire world wants attention now, and it bugs the hell out of me.  I have people tell me things all the time that make me want to respond, "Why are you telling me this?"  I also know a couple of story-tellers.  That's what I call those people that feel the need to tell you a 10 minute story about which no one cares when you say one little thing.

[premiso]

If I struggle to read the problem, I do not answer it. I cannot stand it when people use "u" instead of typing you. Text's I can understand, but come on. This is a forum where you have a full keyboard at your disposal. Learn to type please and stop abbreviating every little thing to save 2 characters.

 

It annoys me, but I do not get angry. I see it as their loss, as if I have to struggle to read it then I do not answer, simple as that. As for proper grammar, that does not bother me cause I know I have horrible grammar, just as long as the words are actually typed out and spelled correctly, I could really care less if they forgot a comma or period. But I also understand that some people have poor education, are too young to know better or have a mental disorder like dyslexia that prevents them from fully understanding how to properly write out words etc correctly.

 

Well yeah, that is my 2 cents. I feel bad for the ones for whom it is a mental disorder, and can understand that. But for someone who knows better, well yeah, that bugs me.

[Daniel0]

Learn to type please and stop abbreviating every little thing to save 2 characters.

 

Yeah, we don't have any space problems. We have 450 GiB at our disposal. Plenty of space for full words...

[xtopolis]

@corbin, lol I think you and I would get along well.

 

Another pet peeve:  People posting the same or redundant information.  I don't know how often I post something and someone posts the exact same thing after me.  I don't know whether it's that these people don't use the "notify me if someone posts while im posting" feature, or they just don't care..  Often I see them post the same info 10+minutes after me... leading me to believe they just don't care.

 

Just had to get that off my chest.

[corbin]

Sometimes I open a crap load of tabs and respond to each one....  If I get caught up on one tab, it might be 10 minutes before I get through them all.  Sometimes I forget to refresh, and if I spend more than 3 minutes typing something, I refuse to not post it.  Dunno if I've ever done it to you though.

 

 

When ever I do that, I make sure to modify my post to acknowledge that the person who beat me said the same thing though lol.

[Maq]

@corbin, lol I think you and I would get along well.

 

Another pet peeve:  People posting the same or redundant information.  I don't know how often I post something and someone posts the exact same thing after me.  I don't know whether it's that these people don't use the "notify me if someone posts while im posting" feature, or they just don't care..  Often I see them post the same info 10+minutes after me... leading me to believe they just don't care.

 

Just had to get that off my chest.

 

I think there was already a thread related to this topic.  Ah yes, here it is.