PHP Programming - As a Career?

[Lukeidiot]

Well, I really love coding in PHP, and was curious to if PHP programming is "careerable". If in fact it is, I'd like to know the next step. I'm 19 years old, and need to goto college. Some questions that fill my mind:

 

1. ) Is PHP Programming a good source of income? How good?

2.) Is PHP Programming the right language to choose?

3.) What degree would I need, and what type of job?

 

Thanks for reading/answering!

[corbin]

16, almost 17 here so no idea what I'm talking about except for reiterating what I've seen on the boards before, but anyway....

 

 

I've heard that MS languages/products usually make more money.

 

 

1.  As for the salary you'll make if you do website design, it would depend.  I mean, Facebook is coded in PHP ;p, and there are probably some starving PHP coders.

 

2.  Uhhh..... no idea.  The more languages you know, the better is my stance on that question.

 

 

3.  There's no such thing as a PHP degree.  There are various certifications (such as a Zend Certificate) though.  What type of job?  Anything that uses PHP!

[KevinM1]

Well, I really love coding in PHP, and was curious to if PHP programming is "careerable". If in fact it is, I'd like to know the next step. I'm 19 years old, and need to goto college. Some questions that fill my mind:

 

1. ) Is PHP Programming a good source of income? How good?

2.) Is PHP Programming the right language to choose?

3.) What degree would I need, and what type of job?

 

Thanks for reading/answering!

 

PHP is a good place to start, but you should also try your hand at other languages/technologies to make yourself more marketable.  Java, Perl, .NET with C#....  Regardless of whether you stick with PHP or not, you'll need a good grasp of JavaScript.

 

As far as a degree goes, corbin is correct - there are no PHP degrees.  That said, most technical colleges have Associate Degree (2 year) programs that focus on web development.  Their courses run the gamut from image creation/editing (Photoshop) to Flash to back end programming (PHP and whatnot).

 

If you want to do more, then a full-fledged Bachelor's Degree in computer science may be the way to go.  Keep in mind that most colleges and universities consider a CS degree an engineering degree, so you'll be forced to take several math classes (calculus+) and a year of physics.  Other science classes may be required as well, such as electrical engineering.  And that's in addition to at least one programming class per semester, and trying to cram in all the general education requirements as well.  It's not for the timid.

 

I hope this helps.

[jcombs_31]

If you don't want all the extra math and science there are similar degrees with the same core programming classes.  CIS and/or MIS. Of course  you'll still have to satisfy all of the general education and other required classes. 

[nadeemshafi9]

I recommend a good course in Media in college to enhance your creativity, computer science networking ect. in university will give you mathematics computing history and programming skills and the knowledge of the underlying technology so you can program and know what your doing with your code. You will also learn design techniques and production management for software.

[nadeemshafi9]

ms developers are not as smart as php developers they work on the top of the underlying code so its like drawing on MS paint, those apps have there place, one you know the swings you can use any language its not about language its about principles programming prinicples, you learn them and you will be able to do anything , programming principles and concepts and principles and concepts reguarding management of production etc.

[nadeemshafi9]

im sure any qualified person here can pick up any language and a manual and jump str8 in. Once you know all the ways and how computers communicate, you can then use all of this, Driver technology , serial USB communications storage wired communications, encryption, memory management memory itself CPU process management algorithms red robin, server technology and client server comm, networking in general and iner networking principles and protocols. there is so much you will get it all in university. Programming is just a way of sequencing events to make different technologies work together, you cant just know PHP you must at least know javascript html xml Linux features etc some basic C and SQL and much more deeper issues to create an application that's actually worth anything.

 

These wont come appaarent to you as soon as you leave university, but after you have worked intesivley for a year or two your true personality comes out.

 

The older people are the smarter in capacity they get, once you get the ball rolling you will keep on advancing and keeping up with the tech.

[nadeemshafi9]

i don't like MS developers... they get paid far too much, peopel i have noticed have recent fluxed in teh market and have stopped ASP.net developers c sharp or vb in teh market and gone back to PHP iv noticed this i keep up to date on teh jobs.

 

Peopel are realizing that .net for eb development is not stable or feasible, flexible or profitable. The IDE's are extremely slow unless you have a super computer, the manuals are cluttered and hard to understand with few examples. it only really themselves that understand there concepts of evolutionary high level concepts.

 

The future of computing is here on the server and the client , so lets keep it simple boys and girls.

 

I cant begin to tell you the issues on MS servers and clients its a joke, its passed its sell by date, MS machines are toys they are not for serious use or critical use.

 

I dont mind creating a robot on MS as it would be easy and teh platform is well advanced for the concepts etc, but critical no it will fail you and you will suffer .

 

I belive in Unix , Unix is the power, even DOS is based on Unix, unix was liek a secret experiment, now we all have it its free, you should be greatfull.

[jcombs_31]

Are you having a nice conversation with yourself?  Half of what you are saying makes no sense. Your opinion of MS developers is also irrelevant to the original question.

[nadeemshafi9]

Are you having a nice conversation with yourself?  Half of what you are saying makes no sense. Your opinion of MS developers is also irrelevant to the original question.

 

sorry i had a fit im drinking creatine and haven't been to gym yet

[KevinM1]

It's obvious you've never tried .NET.  Your ignorance on the subject speaks volumes.

 

Does .NET make things easier for the programmer because of its large library of code?  Of course.  But how is that different than using PEAR?  Or even one of the many PHP frameworks?  Even C++ has its own standard library.

 

Yes, the Visual Studio IDE has a design view.  How is that any different than using something like Dreamweaver?  One could easily say that it's also like using a paint program, given that you can drag and drop elements right onto the screen.  And I haven't had many troubles with the free version of Visual Web Developer.  It does hang occasionally, when first loading a project or opening a database table, but 90% of the time it's just as fast as Notepad++.  And I don't have a super computer.

 

And, have you actually tried C#?  It sounds like you haven't.

 

.NET is plenty stable.  Take a look here: http://www.ektron.com/customers/  Ektron is a local company that created a very flexible CMS in .NET/C#.  I think that both the quantity and quality of their customers show that .NET is a viable solution.

 

So, yeah...you don't know what you're talking about.

[nadeemshafi9]

It's obvious you've never tried .NET. Your ignorance on the subject speaks volumes.

 

Does .NET make things easier for the programmer because of its large library of code? Of course. But how is that different than using PEAR? Or even one of the many PHP frameworks? Even C++ has its own standard library.

 

Yes, the Visual Studio IDE has a design view. How is that any different than using something like Dreamweaver? One could easily say that it's also like using a paint program, given that you can drag and drop elements right onto the screen. And I haven't had many troubles with the free version of Visual Web Developer. It does hang occasionally, when first loading a project or opening a database table, but 90% of the time it's just as fast as Notepad++. And I don't have a super computer.

 

And, have you actually tried C#? It sounds like you haven't.

 

.NET is plenty stable. Take a look here: http://www.ektron.com/customers/ Ektron is a local company that created a very flexible CMS in .NET/C#. I think that both the quantity and quality of their customers show that .NET is a viable solution.

 

So, yeah...you don't know what you're talking about.

 

i have tried C# for 1 month as portfolio programs before i found my first job in php. I havent touched on the intricacies of C#, i was a keen ASP vb developer.

 

I know i am ignorant towards MS at this moment in time, and i admit it, i am looking to change its just giona take sooooo long to get applications made and up and running to even come close to get a job in it. I am working as a php developer now full time so i will have make applications in .net in my spare time just to prove my worth.

 

I was gona go to one of there free tutorials teh otehr day 18 hours but i just dont have the time, until i get some .NET under my belt i wont be able to appreciate it.

 

I did like the way they have done it but its sooooo alien and it was quite new back then the new concepts they were forcing on web developers, the NEW ASP.NET C# was a lot different from 2005 versions due to its user handling xml config etc, it was abit tooo much for me to take in back then, ok i admit i am being one sided, it has just become more and more alien as my platforms get Linux and Mac, i just cant bring myself to work at home on my windows machine.

 

i don't know why but custom controls don't even come into the picture for me, they make me mad, they are not on othyer platforms so why there ? we already have enough trouble making the bloody platforms computability.

 

i have downloaded express and am gonna try some stuff again.

 

The only thing i have been using PEAR and its manual which is comparable to .NET and its manual, so maybe becaus ei have experience with PEAR now i can go to .NET ??? maybe and have no issues this time around.

 

i mean i do have a msn login for home and alot of things now my work is gona get tied into it aswell via the msdn????

[KevinM1]

I haven't tried my hand at creating custom controls.  So far, the pre-existing controls have been more than adequate at filling my needs.

 

For C#, the biggest thing to remember is that everything is an object.  That, and type is actually enforced.  So you have to keep track of your object relationships, specifically the is-a relationships - is object1 a object2 as well?  Also, polymorphism works in two ways:

public class ParentObject
{
   private int id;
   private string name;

   public ParentObject(int id, string name)
   {
      this.id = id;
      this.name = name;
   }
}

public class ChildObject : ParentObject
{
   private string msg = "This is a private message";

   public ChildObject(int id, string name) : base(id, name){ }

   public string MSG
   {
      get { return this.msg; }
      set { this.msg = value; }
   }
}

/* main code */

ParentObject parent = new ChildObject(1, "Bubba"); //<-- perfectly legitimate
parent.MSG = "Hello Wisconsin!"; //<-- error, because parent doesn't have that property

 

For ASP.NET itself, I think the most important thing to learn is the Page lifecycle and the event model.  Other than that, it's pretty straight forward.

[nadeemshafi9]

its not teh concepts i have such a problem with, i am comfortable with C++ and java , its not, its the servers themselves i had issues with when at uni, maybe it will be easy now that im more comfortable with language diversity and library manual's, as i said it takes time to make portofolios and i will have to do so in order to get the .net job

[nadeemshafi9]

IIS active directory was just too much to handle for me as i was learning all tghe open source and c c++ java php linux etc etc, what happened was the setting up of ISS was easy at home but we missed out on active directory so it just became something i despised because i didnt know it.

 

Its about experience without any experience you cant make a portfolio without a porfolio you cant get real jobs without real jobs you cant get a job, i am a full time windows user, but i cant get my head around the permissions on windows files, i am aware they are ahead of unix files

 

excuses excuses hein i will have to get in gear

 

 

let me eat this cheddar and chutney wrap and think about setting up my express studio at home and taking the free training, but the thing is even bloody express runs slow on my amd 64 2.4 1.5gig

[DeanWhitehouse]

I would advise learning C++ or C# as a lanaguage as it is very common in alot of computers industrys.

[genericnumber1]

To address your question "is PHP the right language to choose?"...

In my opinion (take it for what it's worth, I am but a lowly third year computer science major), programmers should be well rounded. Businesses mostly use C++ for systems programming, and C#/Java for most everything else. A good programmer, in my opinion, should be able to work high-level (C#.NET, PHP, Java, (C++?)) AND show competence for the so-called "middle-level" languages as well (C/C++) maybe even throw in some low-level Assembly to learn how the higher level languages do what they do. You can get all of the above with a CS degree and a lot of self determination.

 

To answer your question about PHP demand...

No, PHP isn't in HUGE demand, but it still is used quite readily. C#/VB ASP is still in high use, and JSP is also quite popular in the web field. A good web programmer (in my opinion again) should have an in-depth knowledge of Javascript and HTML especially with all of the frameworks out there making Javascript more fun to do.

 

There are so many different web technologies out there... PHP of course, Django Python, Cold Fusion, ASP, JSP, Ruby on Rails, Catalyst Perl, etc it can be daunting.

 

More of my opinions if you'll hear them...

Like I said before, a good programmer shouldn't get roped into only using the languages that get them a job. A good programmer is always trying new things: never done functional programming? Try out Haskell, lisp, or even F#, they really help your thought process when tackling problems in ANY languages, including PHP.

 

Always try to better yourself. Add some programming blogs to your RSS reader, dig around a bit on sites like Stack Overflow. Read the classic books like  Code Complete, Mythical Man Month, and Pragmatic Programmer, they're all general enough to apply to your PHP programming or any other programming problems you may encounter. Google any buzzwords you see. What's a design pattern? What's a design anti-pattern? etc.

 

Absolutely anything you can do with regard to programming with improve your PHP programming. Learning another language, learning another framework, learning design theory, etc all can improve a person's desirability in the job market and increase your ability to program in your favorite language.

[nadeemshafi9]

php s the most widley used of all server side scripting languages figures say so and you can tell, in my opiion there are more than double the ammounts of php sites compared to any other servers side scripting language

[genericnumber1]

Well I'm not sure of the statistics (please post them if you're making claims based on them), but are you including JSP and C# ASP, because I'm sure I know a few developers who would be offended by you calling them a "scripting language". But yes, PHP is more common than Python, Perl (other scripting languages) in web programming for sure. As far as programming for the web goes, many major business projects often involve module based programming in faster languages such as C with ASP/PHP/JSP front-ends.

[Q695]

I have plenty of graphic artists supplying me with work programming for them.

[corbin]

php s the most widley used of all server side scripting languages figures say so and you can tell, in my opiion there are more than double the ammounts of php sites compared to any other servers side scripting language

 

 

Just because more of something exists doesn't mean more money exists in that field.  Also, there are a crap load of ASP/JSP sites out there.

[genericnumber1]

I have plenty of graphic artists supplying me with work programming for them.

 

Hah, for sure there are a lot of small, freelance work opportunities available. PHP is really nice for small businesses. It's well supported on most shared server hosts, it's easy to setup, it's easy to learn, and most of all, it's an incredibly fun language to program in!

[Daniel0]

in my opiion there are more than double the ammounts of php sites compared to any other servers side scripting language

 

Dude, that doesn't even make sense. In your opinion there are more? Either there is or there isn't - opinion is irrelevant.

[nrg_alpha]

I have plenty of graphic artists supplying me with work programming for them.

 

I'm so glad I decided to learn this web stuff myself. I was once at an impass.. either get a firm / individual to develope my stuff for me (which would mean I wouldn't know how to use any web languages (and thus would still rely on whomever to upkeep / redesign things on an as needed basis), or take the hard road and learn it myself (initially was discouraging as hell). But in hindsight, I'm glad to chose to go it alone. Now I don't need to rely on others. It's truly liberating

[nadeemshafi9]

I have plenty of graphic artists supplying me with work programming for them.

 

yes i know they are more than scripting languages thanks for bringing that back to light, im actualy starting to learn it, i have been invited to a free course and my next job may well be asp.net c sharp developer obviously i will be new but i will learn quick