"Making money online"

[keldorn]

I'm kinda curious what some of you guys think on this. Okay so if your familiar with this model, you make a website, throw adsense on it, and you make money online. Simple right? Maby. Too often I see people make crappy sites, with wordpress or some "pre-made" script, their site never goes anywhere, but to clog the internet up with another crappy website. These people are making like $1 a day with adsense for months...

They keep repeating the same process.  Do you think these people are missing the bigger picture, that to actually run a website that will make good money, you have to be into programming?

Really look at all the big sites you might frequent, each and everyone of them must be owned by people or a person who programmed it themselves. Right?  I mean just look into the top 10,000 most popular websites on the internet by Alexa, I think probably 99% of them are owned by people who programmed the whole site themselves.

 

 

Seriously if you dont believe me, hit up a big webmaster forum like forums.digitalpoint. There is near infinite supply of these kinds of webmasters who do this.

 

Okay I'm not saying that its impossible to run a succesfull website running something like wordpress or any other premade script, but your chances are pretty slim. Are your chances better if you actually make  unique web application coding it from scratch?

 

[TheFilmGod]

Seriously if you dont believe me, hit up a big webmaster forum like forums.digitalpoint. There is near infinite supply of these kinds of webmasters who do this.

 

What you fail to realize is that the link you provided entirely contradicts your argument. That forum is v bulletin - not created by the webmaster and they seem to be doing really well.

[keldorn]

Seriously if you dont believe me, hit up a big webmaster forum like forums.digitalpoint. There is near infinite supply of these kinds of webmasters who do this.

 

What you fail to realize is that the link you provided entirely contradicts your argument. That forum is v bulletin - not created by the webmaster and they seem to be doing really well.

 

Click around the threads.  Click on every sig links you come across and you'll what I'm talking about. Almost of all the site, their are 1. Fill the brim with adsense, affialite links,  2. Running wordpress, 3. Might have a nice template, 3 . Running a free downloadable turnkey script, 4. Has really bad written content.

[keldorn]

Actually I did say its not impossible, But Digitalpoint was one of the first webmaster sites on the scene.

But what I think this boils down to is the barrier of entry. If you bought Vbulletin, or someother forum software, threw it up, and your one the frist people doing it, you will have success, becuase there is no other competition.

Your one the first ones launching the web application. 

 

By developing a web application, that there is no clone for and maby online a few other competitors, that already creates a HIGH barrier of entry. Since no one else can make the website you have easily. Specially of those who can't program. Your sites stands out, and is noticed by users. Generates tons of traffic and money from ads.

 

How many Digg clones is there? Are they doing good and making a million dollars? Probably not.  You wont make tons of money online download premade scripts that are clones. There is to much low level compition online among clone websites that are simple free or paid scripts that you download, and run with no programming knowledge. Those sites will never have success. Never make a million dollars.

 

(At least this my take on the pittfalls of trying to make money online with advertisements)

 

 

[TheFilmGod]

You're pretty much right on key. Are you developing a website portal that is unique? That hasn't yet been thought of?

[keldorn]

You're pretty much right on key. Are you developing a website portal that is unique? That hasn't yet been thought of?

 

No not unique, I've developing a web application where There is only few competitors I've come across.There is no Clone script available. So barrier to entry is high.

The programming task is moderately difficult. But nothing I can't handle. 

 

 

[zq29]

Why reinvent the wheel? If you need to throw up a website that just needs a bunch of pages of unique content and a couple of ads - What's wrong with installing Wordpress, dropping in some content and some banners? It's a hell of a lot quicker for the same result.

 

I'm a full time developer, and I have done exactly that. Create a bunch of Wordpress installs, add content and advertisements, make some money. Repeat, make some more money. If you can keep repeating and making more money - Why not?

 

On the other hand, I have built completely bespoke projects where an OS package would have done a basic job, but not to the level I required, so it was easier to build than modify. These projects tend to make considerably more money though - Which I guess reinforces your point. Although, the larger more bespoke projects tend to require more maintenance and support so I guess it justifies the returns, where as the one-off Wordpress installs are generally built and never touched again.

 

Short build time and little maintenance - small residual returns.

Long build time and more maintenance - larger residual returns.

 

In the time it takes to do a large one, how many small ones could be built - are the many small ones making more than the single large one?

 

I think there are pros and cons to both directions.

 

I've developing a web application where There is only few competitors I've come across.There is no Clone script available. So barrier to entry is high.

The programming task is moderately difficult. But nothing I can't handle. 

 

I could be running a clone of your site in a week or two by paying a group of Indian developers $100.

[JonnoTheDev]

Too often I see people make crappy sites, with wordpress or some "pre-made" script, their site never goes anywhere, but to clog the internet up with another crappy website. These people are making like $1 a day with adsense for months...

They keep repeating the same process.

If you have 1000 of these sites making $1 a day then do you see why this model is used.

 

I have written applications that generate nothing but crappy content, possibly re-spin an article or generate a blog. They can then create a hundred websites on the fly containing adsense or affiliate code. If each one makes you $1 a day then that is your mortgage or rent paid for. Are you going to argue if they are your sites?

[.josh]

the business world likes familiarity.  They have the deepest pockets.  Do the math.

[keldorn]

Why reinvent the wheel? If you need to throw up a website that just needs a bunch of pages of unique content and a couple of ads - What's wrong with installing Wordpress, dropping in some content and some banners? It's a hell of a lot quicker for the same result.

 

 

Your talking about content websites. Which is very low barrier to entry.

 

I could be running a clone of your site in a week or two by paying a group of Indian developers $100.

 

I dont think it matters if you can clone a site, in x days, all that matters if your one of the 1st people in the niche with the application. Most people are very, whats the word.. prone to visitor loyalty. If your the first one there and your sites get popular and goes to 2,000 Alexa rank. Your pretty much set.  Have you ever made an application in the niche that was saturated? Your application is more clean maby better, but that bad looking one that was there first, still is rocking? And your sites is still make one 1 cent a day? Yeah thats the logic there. Your screwed, unless you spend a 100K on adveristing to say to users. HEY HERE IS MY NEW SITE. Becuase your going to have to get their attention(!). Its not worth your time to even enter a niche like that.

 

Here let me a give you an example of a niche I'm been trying. There is this site called Proxy.org, check it out. Simple site right? I bet any of us could clone that site over weekend, in fact I have, (Which is this site). That site make like $6K a month , you see those green links? People pay the owner $250/month for those spots.  There is also new clone of that proxy.org site being made everyday. As you can see here. Simple put, its saturated beyond believe. You will wasting your time if you try to get into that position of x site that was there first.

 

 

 

if you have 1000 of these sites making $1 a day then do you see why this model is used.

 

I have written applications that generate nothing but crappy content, possibly re-spin an article or generate a blog. They can then create a hundred websites on the fly containing adsense or affiliate code. If each one makes you $1 a day then that is your mortgage or rent paid for. Are you going to argue if they are your sites?

 

Okay lets be honest, isn't this the same low level crap the newbs who are trying to make online are doing? I'm not talking out of my ass here, I've been doing this since, Nov 2007 and made maby $20,000 with advertisments.  Its really really hard to actually make real money online that will pay your mortage with crappy content websites. Its not going to work. Not only that , its likely to get your banned from whatever adnetwork your in. Regenerated  articles, with adsense already have a name, its called a MFA (Made for adsense) spam sites, those will get your banned from adsense once you start making something noticiable from the crappy content. So your efforts will be vain.  I also myself report those scrapper sites to google when I come across becuase they piss me off.

 

 

 

Anyways who want to manage 100 or 1000 sites? I'm talking about making that web application that hits in the top 10,000 websites on the internet. That whats you want to aim for. Thats where the real money is. To do that you have to be programmer. Becuase your crating something that doesn't exist, Its not something you can download "premade", and if there is, its means your already too late to get in the door.

[xylex]

You seem to be assuming that website traffic somehow automatically equates to making money.  There's a lot more to making money online than "going viral."  Probably the majority of the top 2000 Alexa sites are currently losing money.  Twitter, for example, is losing millions of dollars a year right now since they still don't have a profitable business model in place.

 

Great video on the topic by David Heinemeier, the guy who created Ruby on Rails. 

 

[keldorn]

You seem to be assuming that website traffic somehow automatically equates to making money.  There's a lot more to making money online than "going viral."  Probably the majority of the top 2000 Alexa sites are currently losing money.  Twitter, for example, is losing millions of dollars a year right now since they still don't have a profitable business model in place.

 

Great video on the topic by David Heinemeier, the guy who created Ruby on Rails. 

 

 

I watched that video last night before I posted this thread. I agree with alot of what he says though. 

I'm not tyring to create the next Facebook, but I would like to create the next site in the top 10,000 websites. Least then I might make few K a month.  I would be happy and content. Thats not too shabby as he says.  Your deffinatly right, some of the top sites are losing money.  I wouldn't run a site like that. Their probably burning threw VC money. Its the VC investors that will be picking up the tab, its their money there throwing at it. lol

 

[JonnoTheDev]

Its really really hard to actually make real money online that will pay your mortage with crappy content websites. Its not going to work.

You think!

[zq29]

I dont think it matters if you can clone a site, in x days, all that matters if your one of the 1st people in the niche with the application. Most people are very, whats the word.. prone to visitor loyalty. If your the first one there and your sites get popular and goes to 2,000 Alexa rank. Your pretty much set.  Have you ever made an application in the niche that was saturated? Your application is more clean maby better, but that bad looking one that was there first, still is rocking? And your sites is still make one 1 cent a day? Yeah thats the logic there. Your screwed, unless you spend a 100K on adveristing to say to users. HEY HERE IS MY NEW SITE. Becuase your going to have to get their attention(!). Its not worth your time to even enter a niche like that.

 

I don't think that's necessarily true. Take social networking for example - Everyone joins Friendster, then when Bebo comes along they jump onto that, then MySpace, oh look, there's Facebook! Lets go there instead! Visitor loyalty is short lived, especially if you're not giving them what they want, and someone else can.

 

Anyways who want to manage 100 or 1000 sites? I'm talking about making that web application that hits in the top 10,000 websites on the internet. That whats you want to aim for. Thats where the real money is. To do that you have to be programmer. Becuase your crating something that doesn't exist, Its not something you can download "premade", and if there is, its means your already too late to get in the door.

 

I don't think you need to be a programmer at all, really. You can take your idea to a development house and have it built for you. You're just investing cash rather than time.

[keldorn]

I don't think that's necessarily true. Take social networking for example - Everyone joins Friendster, then when Bebo comes along they jump onto that, then MySpace, oh look, there's Facebook! Lets go there instead! Visitor loyalty is short lived, especially if you're not giving them what they want, and someone else can.

 

I don't think you need to be a programmer at all, really. You can take your idea to a development house and have it built for you. You're just investing cash rather than time.

 

 

True, I'll agree,  Visitor loyalty is not permanent, but old habits are hard to crack. It will take a lot of advertising to convince users to use your application/service then the competitor who was there first.

 

I think that learning programming already puts way over the bar of entry, since you can create software that works and runs, that 99% of the webmasters out there can't do. If your hiring someone else to create your software, then you might end up spending a a lot of money, more then the site will ever make. Spcially if you paying 25$/hour,  is your time worth $25 hour? Then I would do it yourself, of couse the next barrier is the time it take to learn web programming and become competent with something like PHP.

 

I think Social networking sites are probably completely at that point now where there is no more room however for new competitors, or rather I mean any new ones that will go "viral", and open source premade social networks script exist now like Dolphin, So in fact that door is closed now.  My general consensuses now  is that If you see a niche, and there is free scripts available for it, do not enter, or maby check it out, there probably already is a thousand clones of the sites up and running, probably not worth time. Becuase the barrier of entry has already been lowered for non-programming newbs to get in, which you'll have to compete with. Barrier to entry is very important, I think its a good model to go by. Now since I've become pretty competent with PHP, (It took me 2 years of time to learn) I'm going to put this theory to the test. I'll start by just cloning websites I see where the barrier to entry is a bit high.

 

I feel like I'm talking out of my ass here now, but yeah, I'd like to hear what anyone else thinks it takes to make that successful startup that actually make real money.

But I'm pretty much convinced you have to be competent at programming and developing web applications if you going to get anywhere with it.

 

[Andy-H]

I just think you need a unique idea, determination and a good few grand to throw at it at start up. Then you need to prove your business model is viable to an investor; make a few quid then sell it for more money than you can spend in a lifetime before you get sued.

 

I am talking out of my arse tbh.

 

However, I do keep seeing major trends of the internet giants having to get out the law suits for one reason or another. I think the owners of YouTube sold at exactly the right time.

[cags]

Take Twitter. Hugely popular and estimated to be woth over a bilion dollars, yet it hasn't actually generated a cent of income. I'd really love to know how they came up with the valuation.