[SOLVED] redone

[redbullmarky]

[quote author=businessman332211 link=topic=106884.msg477009#msg477009 date=1164986319]
uhh, I didn't ask for a re-critique, this post set here for almost 2 week's, without me saying anything, and all of a sudden people started critiquing again, I didn't just pop in and ask.

I was actually doing a lot on my server, while keeping an eye on this post, but my last post on this specific thread was over 3-4-5 weeks ago, [b]it died[/b], then people resurrected it.
I wasn't asking for help agian, but it's appreciated.
[/quote]
if it has been 2-3 weeks, and yet things look the same and still a bit rubbish, with none of (peoples carefully thought out) suggestions implemented, then we can only assume that you're struggling with the initial advice that was given - therefore, we want to re-iterate it so that it's crystal clear. on revisiting the site a few times, and realising that there was either tonnes of errors or no changes, the only thing "that died" (as you suggest) was your server and possibly  your career in the event that any potential or current clients were visiting your webs(h)ite at the time.

[quote author=businessman332211 link=topic=106884.msg477009#msg477009 date=1164986319]Currently I am doing a lot, right now I have changed over to another server, I am "considering", a brand new domain name and website, if I keep the current one, I am going over the entire list I saw from steelman, and going to bite the bullet and follow all or most of his advice, then see how it looks and go over what redbullmarky said.
[/quote]
how about "considering" staying where you are and just taking some advice? You say you've done alot. But every question you've asked elsewhere in this forum, trying to get help, TOTALLY contradicts your claims of 2 (or was it 4?) years experience. i get a little miffed with this, as you post in the freelance forum looking for work re-establishing these claims. any sucker that picks up work from you and realises that you charge ridiculous amounts (or swapsies for games/new teeth) for below-average results doesnt just make YOU look bad, it makes the whole community look bad.

[quote author=businessman332211 link=topic=106884.msg477009#msg477009 date=1164986319]
If I don't rebuild the entire thing from scratch, I am atleast going to be rewritting all the code, to these people's advice, and redoing all the content.
[/quote]
yawn, you said that last time you decided to rewrite the thing. you also said you'd take our advice then. oh look - a new site, same old stuff = none of the old advice taken.

[quote author=businessman332211 link=topic=106884.msg477009#msg477009 date=1164986319]
A few things steelman mentioned I might not do, but most of the things he said on the design, and a lot of the things he mentioned on the content made since, so I am going to be redoing all of that, based on his ideas, as soon as I decide whether I am scraping and rebuilding under a different domain name, or keeping the current site.
[/quote]
what does the domain name have to do with doing a site that smells like ass or not? surely only the logo gets affected by a new domain. and you have someone else to deal with that anyway.

seriously, you're very welcome around these parts and you show a desire to learn. but you're like a schizophrenic - one place you ask stuff that you're sposed to learn after a few weeks, and in another you're telling everyone how much you know and how much you charge. sort it out otherwise you're gonna be left with no help and definitely no career.

now i predict you'll do one of three things. 1) come out with a massive rant like last time, including comments about mothers 2) write a 14 page document about how wrong i am 3) post a topic in 'Miscellaneous' asking why you're not getting ahead in your career. hopefully you pick the 4th or 5th option which would be 4) do something useful and back up your claims or 5) pick a new career

i hate to sound like a tosser, cause i kinda like you around here, but you need to know (and appreciate and listen to) the truth.

[steelmanronald06]

I would like to throw my cup of tea in with redbullmarky.  I agree with everything he says.  Don't take this the wrong way. I would want someone to tell me the truth, and you should want the same. If you don't like it, take it with a shrug and go on. I mean their just words, right? Not like their killing you. 

[txmedic03]

Sorry, but I must say that you should contemplate some other line of work.  Graphics/CSS/XHTML the general layout stuff just doesn't suit you.  Welcome to my world.  I haven't seen your PHP (or other server-side scripting language) skills, but design is not your strong point.

[Ninjakreborn]

I know.
What do you all think of this,
http://www.freelancebusinessman.com/
I have
1. Rewritten all the content
2. Reorganized all the content
(almost all of that followed steelman's advice, I listened to a lot of things he said)
3. Centered it, 800 px (like redbullmarky said)
4. Redid the color scheme, but I am not done with the color scheme yet, I am wondering if everything is heading in the right direction?

[Zane]

just go to the bottom of your CSS styles
and say
[code]
* {
  background-color: none;
}
[/code]
You site would look fine without a 'color scheme'

maybe make the nav bar.. or maybe the body area have like a slight off white off gray background
but that's about it

and put a divider between the headers and footers where they meet the body

that's about the most I could contribute
whatever you do..just make sure people can actually see the links on the nav bar

[redbullmarky]

needs tonnes of work to it, but it looks better. sort out the colours of active/visited links, as they clash too much with the background. and change your font so something nicer. Verdana/Tahoma, etc. Also, that big blue square on the right of your logo looks terrible.

[busi]mild_pat_on_the_back[/busi]  ( ;) )

[Ninjakreborn]

red, I went ahead and
1. Added the divider between the header and content, like he suggested
2. CHanged the font size, and type like you suggested
3. Tried my best to redo the navigation coloring
4. Removed the matrix affect at the bottom, and made it the same green as the green in the lettering of the logo
5. Removed that huge blue box at the top,
ANy other advice, or thoughts, on coloring or anything

[Zane]

looking muich better
but still you have background-colors for things that don't need them

my advice would be to get rid of all background colors so far
and add whatever might look good one at a time

[Ninjakreborn]

Zanus, I am a little confused, can you explain a little better.
I thought there suggestions was to make it more colorful, but with matching color's, the blue/green combination, I looked for, the logo had green tint in the text, so I used the green for the side color, and blue for my main color, can you be a little more specific.  Also I want to hear red's opinions too, before I do that, but most of it's because I think I am misunderstanding what you are saying, could you re-explain it.

[Zane]

I'm not saying to avoid a color scheme I'm just saying to actually ...
how can I explain it

right now when i look at it almost looks like you said to yourself "i need color'
so you picked random areas to add color
and asked us if that satisfied the color problem
for instance with that random blue block in the header a while back

Your logo stands out the most on the page and it has two colors on it
use the same colors to create your scheme
and then you might use i dunno maybe a red to make little things stand out but only little things
and tada a color scheme

i think you've got the idea but i figured i preach it a little anyway
just in case.


I guess another tip...if you must use background colors
make them more subtle...like they're part of the page

[Ninjakreborn]

See the thing I am having difficulty understanding, is I heard a lot of people hate whitespace, so I thought background color's were important.  But I think I understand what you are saying, I am going to try removing all the background color's, and thinking about what might look the best, as I go, and then see what I come up with after a few minutes of thinking.
Add it to what need's it, or what might look good with a background color.

[Zane]

[quote]I heard a lot of people hate whitespace[/quote]
when it's used wrong they do...

you use whitespace to keep the eyes directed where they need to be
sometimes a simple arrow pointing somewhere in the middle of the most whitespace ever
can justify that .. missuse because it directs the eyes
not saying you should put arrows all over your site or anything..just trying to make an analogy

[txmedic03]

The white behind the links on the nav bar to the left ABSOLUTELY HAS TO GO.  It looks really bad and the next to last link on the footer is unreadable until you mouse over.  I like this better than the other, but now take this and think "originality".  This looks like it was built from a very basic template, which is a nice place to start, but you have to make it unique or people think you are just another average joe with little or no experience.

[Ninjakreborn]

You mean a basic template I created.  Yes it started with a box layout,a nd it wasn't that good, I revamped it a few time's, I think what you mentioned just now, was when I was testing, the coloring was changing a lot earlier.
Right now, after about 4 hours, of sitting down, I stripped all the color out, I redid the color scheme, I looked at color wheels, though about what it was I was looking at.
I noticed that when I looked at some color combinations, it made it hard for me to focus, on, I looked at the left nav, for about 15 minutes, I realized it was hard on the eye's, so I kept looking at it, as I changed the color scheme, until I noticed a color setup for the left nav, that made my eyes feel at home, then I moved to the footer, and noticed it was giving me the same affect, so I noticed
1. It wasn't the right color matching
2. It didn't go well with the left nav.
So I did the same thing with it, until I had something that looked good to the eye, looking over the site a few time's, the whole thing looks like the color scheme is worked out, the links within the content, I copied the leftnav link coloring into, and it still looking good on the eyes.
Now let me see what you think
?

[steelmanronald06]

Well, I give you props. It does look better. Since my advice was so helpful before, I will go deep again and give you some more on the current design.  But, good job.

1) The navigation bar is very well organized.  You put what you wanted out, plushed it with your tutorials, and then put your extra towards the bottom.  However, the background on the navigation bar.  Make it a creamy milk color.  It would match so well with your use of colors if you did.  *runs to find a color chart*  Bit color blind, but I think this would look good: #FFFFCC  It isn't to dark, but it isn't white. It adds just enough color to offset it from your background and provide a gentle blend.

2) Excellent use of the logo.  You did very good on getting it cleaned up.

3) The overall frame style, the way it frames your content, is good. 

4) Your footer has to much fluff in it.  Take out some links.  Here is what I would do.  Align the copyright to the left, and align the Legal and Site Map to the right.  Leave the center open. 

5) Smooth move on getting rid of your experience in years on your skills page. You really was providing to much info there.  But I would change it around a bit. You ahve skills and other skills???? Put something like:

Programming
  all your programming languages

Design
  html, xhtml, css, etc

Databases
  MySQL, oracle, etc

Other
  SEO work, etc

And leave your services part alone. It looks perfect.

6) The porfolio looks better.  If you have done more work, list those sites as well.  Every bit helps, both good and bad.  It shows your skills, and the bad shows your not perfect/trying act perfect.

That is all i can list now. I'm running late for a meeting. Fix those up, come back, and i will recritique and go over what I missed...which wasn't much.

[Ninjakreborn]

Perfect, you are so damn helpful.
Thanks to you, red, and zanus, (and everyone else that offered advice)
things are looking better, today, I will go througha nd do everything you suggested, and a few more rewrites on some of the content, then I will post back again here, if any passer byers want to throw out any more advice, I would appreciate that too, thanks steelmanronald06

[redbullmarky]

DONT ADJUST THE LAYOUT ANY MORE. I RECKON YOU'VE NAILED IT :)

i actually (for some reason) like the fact that the right hand side has not been closed by a border, which would have been tempting.

had a little chuckle at the trouble you're having right this second with the footer alignment. only cos i've had the same problem earlier and all too tempting to use a table...

as is the footer, drop the size of the text a little.

Thoughts and Guidlines. capitalize the T and G

i think what you're probably missing now is some icing. The cake has been baked, but it's a bit of a bland Victoria Sponge. Maybe some faint backdrop images may work. the resources sticky at the top of website critique will give you a few links to free stock photos, just to liven things up a touch.

[Ninjakreborn]

Ok I went ahead and implemented your ideas, anymore, and anyone else.
Thanks.

[Ninjakreborn]

[quote]DONT ADJUST THE LAYOUT ANY MORE. I RECKON YOU'VE NAILED IT Smiley[/quote]
Ok, I did change the few things he suggested, as far as the background color on the leftnav, is that good, or should I go back to what I had before changing it?  I will also go ahead and do your other suggestions now.

[redbullmarky]

yeah thats what i meant - after steelmans suggestions.

y'know, i'm a little indifferent to both the cream and the old blue colour. as the cream is different, i'd go with that. you can always change it once you get a bit more confident with the theming of things.

can you vertically align the footer text and move it off its left/right edges a touch?

[Ninjakreborn]

Yes, I keep this post bookmarked, tomorrow, when I start working again, after getting projects done, and started up, when I work on my site again, I will do that with the footer, do another couple of rewrites on the content (still weeding out trash, and other stuff).  I finally learnt the secret to web development (be willing to shut up and take people's advice), when I swallowed my pride, and realized other people know more than me, it finally got me somewhere.  After I organize the content a little more, and rewrite it a few time's, and do some functionality (userfriendly), type features, like redo the portfolio, and some stuff, then I will post back in this post tomorrow for another critique, if anyone ahs any advice until then, go for it.

Thanks for all the help so far.

[steelmanronald06]

It looks really really really good! I actually love it. I give myself...i mean you, props! :)  That will be $200 USD please.  Money order or paypal.

[448191]

I'm a bit baffled by the level of improvement. Surely it's not great, but it's a lot better than ANYTHING I've seen you do before.

Congrats sofar.  :)


[quote=Mark]
can you vertically align the footer text and move it off its left/right edges a touch?[/quote]

Agreed.

Some other tips:

[*] It generally speaking tends to look better if you have category titles for naviation in a slightly bigger font than the actual links. The links are already pretty big, so switch the size of category titles and links.
[*] Color scheme: I like the green variant, it's elegant. The yellow doesn't really match though. I recommend a light pastel green.
[*] Layout: You've gone with a simple layout, which is a good thing. I personally think your logo would look better centered, but others might dissagree.
[*] Another detail: more top padding for the first category title. Try to match it to the title in the content box.

You're coming along.

[redbullmarky]

yeah i disagree about the logo. left/right aligned always better, IMO. agreed with your other points though.
this is a nice little reference (apart from being another Web2.0 reference grrrr...) that i've actually used a few times. love or hate "web 2.0", you have to admit some of the colour schemes do look quite slick:
http://www.modernlifeisrubbish.co.uk/article/web-2.0-colour-palette

might help you pick a better colour for your side nav.

i'm with steelman + 448191 on this one - its been a long time coming, but congrats for the improvement. now it's in the realms of a site that needs improving to make it finished, rather than before when it was in the realms of awful and amateur.

[jcombs_31]

While I agree it is certainly better, I think it has a long way to go. I know I'm using a high resolution, but you have way too much white space.  I hope you understand that white space doesn't necessarily mean it is the color white.  It is the negative empty space covering the page.  I do like the logo ;) (remember the link back), but your site does not leave me with any feeling of your being a web designer.  You need to incorporate more graphics into the site.  Nothing dramatic, but something to make it stand out just a little.  The menu has no style at all.  Some image hovers would be nice.  I know that you are no graphic artist, but you need to have a little bit in that area to be any bit successful as a web designer.  I know you claim to have your own graphic designer, and if you do, I would suggest using him for what would become your portfolio for potential clients.