[SOLVED] critique

[Ninjakreborn]

What do you think of hte new site I am about to release in place of my old one
http://www.fbtest2.com/

I am working on one for my framework to, but I haven't finished it yet.

[ober]

Nice.  Where'd you get the template?

By the way, you have about a billion grammatical/spelling/punctuation errors.

[Ninjakreborn]

Thanks.  Well I had been putting off developing it for awhile, then I ran across something I loved the way it looked, so it used, it.  Something off of google, using one for my personal programmer assistant website too.

[Ninjakreborn]

I do, I thought the grammer was pretty good, I will run them all through a word document spelling/grammer checker before I release it live.

I want to finish my other website too, so I can release them both at the same time, and have 2 of them in my network.

[AXiSS]

The template seems so... unoriginal. Doesn't really impress me.

[redbullmarky]

it looks good. about 10,000,000 times better than your current effort. i have a couple of pointers/questions:
- too many links. there are links across the top, links down the left hand side, etc. for someone with only a handful or so of sites on their portfolio, that's far too many links.
- the text based header could do with something still along the lines of what jcombs produced for your old site.
- if it IS a template, you'll need to give credit...
- a lack of images kinda bugs me a bit. even screenshots of your portfolio, and maybe a link on the homepage such as "latest project" would help add some liveliness to the proceedings

i have to ask ask well - why did you register fbtest2.com just to mess with, instead of just using a subdomain?

otherwise - i'm not sure how much is yours or how much is coutesy of a template, but if it's your own doing, then kudos - this is one hell of a step up and towards the right direction...

[steelmanronald06]

Frankly, I'm disappointed.  Your original design, though not as good looking as this one, was better in the since that it was YOURS. This one is work someone else done.  Stick with the one you had, and just keep improving on it. 

[Ninjakreborn]

[quote]it looks good. about 10,000,000 times better than your current effort. i have a couple of pointers/questions:
- too many links. there are links across the top, links down the left hand side, etc. for someone with only a handful or so of sites on their portfolio, that's far too many links.
- the text based header could do with something still along the lines of what jcombs produced for your old site.
- if it IS a template, you'll need to give credit...
- a lack of images kinda bugs me a bit. even screenshots of your portfolio, and maybe a link on the homepage such as "latest project" would help add some liveliness to the proceedings

i have to ask ask well - why did you register fbtest2.com just to mess with, instead of just using a subdomain?

otherwise - i'm not sure how much is yours or how much is coutesy of a template, but if it's your own doing, then kudos - this is one hell of a step up and towards the right direction...[/quote]
Thanks for the feedback.

[quote]Frankly, I'm disappointed.  Your original design, though not as good looking as this one, was better in the since that it was YOURS. This one is work someone else done.  Stick with the one you had, and just keep improving on it. [/quote]
I don't know, I really don't.  I have been going over this in my head hundreds of time's.

I have had hundreds of opinions on it.

Your opinions, redbullmarky, ober, everybody.  Many more.  I have had a lot of people tell me a lot of things, I made a lot of decisions that took a lot of time to make.  After talking mostly with redbullmarky for a very, very long time, I finally decided to choose to create my own framework, even if it take's time.  After going over other people's advice I know based on all the advice, I made the following decisions

* Make my own framework
* Learn MVC
* Learn OOP
* Only do my own javascript library if I feel like it, and if I want a 3rd party one, there is no shame in that.

I have made those decisions.

My site, I for some reason feel, I can easily build site's for clients.
I always do, they are generally always custom, and the client always likes them.  However, I can never come up with something decent for my site.

I had a layout for my site from a graphic designer, I coded it.  It wasn't good, after heavy modification over months, it finally worked out, and turned out proper.  Everyone here liked it, so far.  Then I noticed my clientel triple decreased over my last site.

So I am redoing it again, I was thinking of doing it myself, but when workin gon something for me I can never decide, when I saw this template I loved it.  So I went with it.

I decided to use templates where decided, I pulled this off a source were i didn't have to mention who the template belongs too.  I won't lie if someone asks, but the template was modified, I always rewrite the code as much as I can too.  For now, if I hear more than a few people on here say I should keep the old site I am going to.  However I have to have the opinions of a lot more people

So basically should I go with
my old site
www.freelancebusinessman.com I created the whole thing, and set it all up, and got it up and running.  However I got project decreased, and don't feel as good about that one

www.fbtest2.com (will replace the old one if I use it) that released anew along with a site for my framework I am releasing.  I know this will increase clients, as well as make me feel better about the site (it already is).  It is "based" off a template, so will my framework site.

I wouldn't have actual time to build a site from scratch again (personal use) for awhile.  So in order to get these out there, I used a template.  I still do mostly custom layouts from scratch, this time I wanted to cut some corners, becuase naturally, I even removed the tutorial segment from my site.  I have to decide what I want to devote my time to, and what I don't.  Right now I want to get a new site, but want to mostly devote my time to working on projects, and releasing these 2 quicker, so I can work on my framework instead.  And work on projects..

[redbullmarky]

well - i share [i]some[/i] of the sentiment of Ronald, although if it helps you get on the right track but off your own bat, then good luck to you.

Let me put this to you though. I don't personally have an official site up for my web design stuff any more. It'd be interesting to find out how much people here actually get through their web design sites compared to word of mouth or other sources, but maybe you should look a little closer at your priorities - maybe you dont [i]need[/i] a site yet if you're confident enough in your work and your clients are happy enough with you...

[Ninjakreborn]

Hmm good points.  Thanks.

I will keep these things in mind, and think about these things you brought to my attention.

Then I will make a decision I find necessary (advice given by you redbullmarky).

You told me no matter what to make the decisions I feel comfortable with, after hearing opinion, so that's what I have been doing.

I will think about this stuff, thanks for the advice.

[jcombs_31]

certainly looks better, but as mentioned, doesn't say much about you as a web design company if you can't design your own site.

[jcombs_31]

holy sh*t, you need to seriously reconsider your quote form.  I don't even understand most of your selection questions and honestly, who would take the time to fill that entire thing out!!!

[ober]

awww... it's down.  I wanted to see what you were talking about :(

[jcombs_31]

check the freelance biz link. the other one is down.

[Ninjakreborn]

Yes, I was hoping to get feedback on that form.

I want to redo it, Ic ouldn't decide.

I want an all in one way to get project information, so I can quote someone.  Also for people have have 10-15 different projects at once.  I have had multiple people come to me, one needed 2 site's and one small app. I want a way to accomodate for all of those, the form can be found on www.freelancebusinessman.com/quickquote1.php
it's also linked on the main page.

What do you think I should do with it, I saw it on other site's.

I tried live chat support with help center live, but it looked ugly on the site, it slowed things down, and noone ever used it, it was a waste of time, so I was thinking quick quote form, I was going to build a pricing engine into it, to tabulate the information and give rough prices through it.

However I want to get the perfect form, before I move forward with that.

[ober]

... seriously?  You were going to use that?

[Ninjakreborn]

Yes, I was planning on it, I am going to use something.  However if you have ideas on how to make it better. or a better format.

Now that I have mentioned what I want to accomplish, I am open for advice on it.

[Nameless12]

your quickquote.php is way way to long split the data and put it on multiple pages also the grey textarea\input background does not look right

Also i clicked your xhtml validated link at the bottom of the page you have 72 xhtml validation errors most of them are to do with the form on quickquote.php I think.

[Ninjakreborn]

I know, having multiple labels for multiple names.

I have
services[]
services[]
services[]
I needed label's for all of them, I am going to look into a nother way shortly.  I mostly keep those links there so I can validate it quicker, I try to check everything for validation after each update, so everything stays validated, thank's for the advice, and for pointing that out.

[AndyB]

[quote]If you needed some stuff done, that wasn't fully covered in the website area, or application area. [/quote]

Directly from the 'quick' quote form ... this is what you have run through a grammar checker?  It's not even a sentence!! Referring to 'stuff' might be OK on a personal site, but it's unprofessional (to say the least) on a business site.

[steviewdr]

The template you are using is here:
http://www.styleshout.com/templates/preview/Refresh/index.html

And - it seems that you are missing the REQUIRED -> "Design by: styleshout" hyperlink as stated/required under Creative Commons License.

-steve

[Ninjakreborn]

See the problem here is, I don't care what YOU see required.  You aren't the one that owned the template, or the one that recoded it, or the one that used it.  Or the one that got the file with it.

It is NOT required based on the information included with the template.

I can donate to there cause, I can leave a link at the bottom, or I can put it in a credit's page, or I can do none of the above. 

I don't intend to put it at the bottom of every page, I do however intend to put a credit's page up when I get time this week.  That however doesn't mean that I have to, it doesn't mean it's required by teh template creator, by law, or by the copyright.

I am doing it, because
1. I have no reason to hide it
2. I have no reason not to
3. I have absolutely no obligation too, but so far I liked all the templates on that site.

I have used one for my framework, and one for my site, they were both perfect matches for what I wanted, and both convenient.  I do intend to support "them" in any way I can, not because I have to (If I had to I wouldn't have gotten the template, that's the way I work".  So I have credit's page on my other site, and I am adding one to my site.

I built the site, I owned it, I created it, it was based off a template (I liked a lot) off there site, and I intend to give them due credit.

Don't think it's because you think I "Have" to for some reason.

Now as a recap over my entire message, I didn't use a "cuss" word once, I didn't make an insult once, so I technically broke no rules.

As far as creative common liscence, I have a copy of the liscence agreement inside the file, I don't have to see it the way you see it.  The template owner has a problem with it, they can tell me themselves, and I can show them where it say's it.

I am adding a credit's, but far from teh reason of you telling me I need to, more of a reason to support the company that provided me with the 2 structures, to get 2 of my site's up and running rather quickly.

[AndyB]

We understand that you don't care what we (or just Steviewdr) think.  The fact remains that part of the Creative Commons Licence is as follows:

[quote]You may distribute, publicly display, publicly perform, or publicly digitally perform the Work only under the terms of this License, and You must include a copy of, or the Uniform Resource Identifier for, this License with every copy or phonorecord of the Work You distribute, publicly display, publicly perform, or publicly digitally perform.[/quote]

That means [b]every copy[/b]. Not a link somewhere on your site or somewhere else, it means [i]every copy[/i] - and each page of your site is a copy of that code.  Given how much space you (used to) devote to Ethics, I'm surprised you're so politely outraged at being caught behaving thus.

[Ninjakreborn]

No it wasn't what I was mad about.

What made me mad was he tried to accuse me of doing something wrong.  I don't particular pay attention to that, I read what was on the thing.

I intend to do it that way, if someone has a problem they can contact me (the person with the template)< hell I will email them myself and ask them, that's the point.

I used it, not trying to hide it, but don't like him coming on here, out of nowhere, pointing the finger at me like
AHA this is the template you were using, and you are breaking the law.

BUllshit, I read the thing myself, that is the point, he went against my better judgement, I always read copyright before using something.

i read it, adn did exactly what the terms said I could do
(credit's page)

[redbullmarky]

busi, at not one point in steve's thread pointing that out did i see any accusations - more just a matter of fact and a tip to rectify it. Whatever your intention is for the future, it's the fact that your site does not have a link on it [i]right at this moment[/i] that is the problem. Even without reading the licence, but just taking a jump to his site and reading it, all he asks for is you put a link back to his site, [b]clearly[/b] (ie, not tucked away somewhere) on your site.

So chill out a bit dude - Steve + Andy was pointing out something that could get you into hot water, not accusing you of being a serial offender.